Concerned About The Right Aligning with Putin

[Twilight Hue]

The support towards Putin from European nationalists (rightists), started in the beginning of the last decade when the 44thPresident of the United States, Obama, started developping a very anti-Western stance and said things which I, as European, consider offensive and demeaning. And they were not worthy of the leader of the West.
That is why, people felt that Putin was their only stronghold, defending that civilization.
Then things changed, of course. The war has surely changed Putin's perception.

It never ceases to amaze me just exactly why the free world proactively deals with authoritarian and totalitarian regimes knowing full well what they are even to a point of dependency and maybe even a degree of subservience.

 

[SomeRandom]

Interesting....I've been noticing some of my fellow posters
on the left engaging in Putin apologetics. So perhaps it's
a bi-partisan problem. (BTW, more than one poster here
has sung the praises of the Soviet system.)

In lefty circles those folks would likely be labelled as “Tankies.”
Apologists for The Soviet Union/Communist states and blindly loyal to the leaders past and present.

So naturally they would support Putin. But much like the OP, this causes something akin to consternation among the other parts of the Lefty world. Because Tankies are seen as annoying at best and unrealistic fanatics at worst.

But yeah, I take your point. You can find support for Putin on either end of the political spectrum.
Unfortunately

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm a general 'right-winger' and have conservative views on many things, am very religious and so on, but I have noticed a trend of those on my side of the aisle arguing more or less Putin apologetics - even if they're not explicitly 'pro-Putin/Russia' I hear a lot about 'If only people would look at the history of why Russia invaded...' and 'This is not a normal invasion...' etc. And even if Russia does have some historical precedent, this is still just an excuse - Britain, or at the very least England, has hundreds of years worth of historical precedent for invading France, and if you want to go far back enough we could probably claim Normandy - but we don't, because that's nonsensical.

As a rightist, I am concerned about this. I hope we can distance from Putin apologists. This is not a just war in any sense.

Even though I’m a filthy leftist, this is why I respect you.
You’re intellectually honest enough to call out your “allies” when they are doing something unjustifiable.

 

[Left Coast]

In the West you can say anything about Jesus. It is allowed. But...not only about Jesus. About any prophet.
This is the foundation of our civilization. It has nothing to do with this or that religion.

Oh give me a break. You think Italian Catholic nationalists would give a **** if he said "The future must not belong to those who slander the name of Jesus"? Cmon now. They would cheer!

Nationalist authoritarians like Putin because he is the kind of leader they admire and want for themselves and their countries. Blaming the left is a cop out.

 

[74x12]

There is no reason that pro-Russia opinions should be tolerated. They should be met with harsh scrutiny at the very least.
Sort of like the Klan. Open support of them will--rightfully-draw harsh criticism and very few would--again rightfully--come to their defense. Putin wants to pull this crap and every excuse he gives should be rejected. Like this "de-Nazification" nonsense.

The Azov brigade is real. They're Ukrainian Nazis. The fact that the Ukranian government along with NATO supports the Azov brigade is disturbing and Putin wasn't as crazy as I initially thought he was when he talked about "de-nazification".

The Azov brigade is basically to Ukraine as Hezbollah is to Lebanon.

According to reports; these nazis had been attacking civilians in Donbass region for some time before the war even started with artillery. I think that's actually one of the best excuses Putin has for starting this war. He claims he is defendng Russians living in Donbass against Nazis.

So actually one of Putin's best excuses for starting the war. I still don't support Russia because I think he could have dealt with this without declaring all out war. But, he did have a point about Nazis.

 

[Stevicus]

Interesting....I've been noticing some of my fellow posters
on the left engaging in Putin apologetics. So perhaps it's
a bi-partisan problem. (BTW, more than one poster here
has sung the praises of the Soviet system.)

Just because someone doesn't agree with propagandistic and mendacious demonization of the Soviet system, it doesn't constitute "singing the praises" of that system.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Azov brigade is real. They're Ukrainian Nazis. The fact that the Ukranian government along with NATO supports the Azov brigade is disturbing and Putin wasn't as crazy as I initially thought he was when he talked about "de-nazification".

The Azov brigade is basically to Ukraine as Hezbollah is to Lebanon.

According to reports; these nazis had been attacking civilians in Donbass region for some time before the war even started with artillery. I think that's actually one of the best excuses Putin has for starting this war. He claims he is defendng Russians living in Donbass against Nazis.

So actually one of Putin's best excuses for starting the war. I still don't support Russia because I think he could have dealt with this without declaring all out war. But, he did have a point about Nazis.

It's still a BS excuse. He wants to make himself look like the good guy, all while attacking places where even some Holocaust survivors live. And it still doesn't suggest or imply there is a deeply rooted problem with Nazis to "de-Nazify" them with indiscriminate bombing and capturing and killing civilians.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Italian Nationalists (and European rightists) in general can hardly tolerate such radical stances.
Video

I guess it was sentences like this that pushed them to prefer Putin.

Radical? Oh good grief. He was not protecting Islam, and in he's general he's right. The future must not belong to haters.
It's called "context." You don't even need critical analysis for this one.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The support towards Putin from European nationalists (rightists), started in the beginning of the last decade when the 44thPresident of the United States, Obama, started developping a very anti-Western stance and said things which I, as European, consider offensive and demeaning. And they were not worthy of the leader of the West.
That is why, people felt that Putin was their only stronghold, defending that civilization.
Then things changed, of course. The war has surely changed Putin's perception.

It would have been preferable if you had elaborated those "things" of Obama's that you found offensive. I don't know what they are.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It would have been preferable if you had elaborated those "things" of Obama's that you found offensive. I don't know what they are.

Setting aside the hyperbole about being "anti-Western," I would consider overseas drone strikes that led to civilian deaths to be more offensive than anything one could possibly say.

Obama was a warmonger with a silver tongue and a fancy suit.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The Azov brigade is real. They're Ukrainian Nazis. The fact that the Ukranian government along with NATO supports the Azov brigade is disturbing and Putin wasn't as crazy as I initially thought he was when he talked about "de-nazification".

The Azov brigade is basically to Ukraine as Hezbollah is to Lebanon.

According to reports; these nazis had been attacking civilians in Donbass region for some time before the war even started with artillery. I think that's actually one of the best excuses Putin has for starting this war. He claims he is defendng Russians living in Donbass against Nazis.

So actually one of Putin's best excuses for starting the war. I still don't support Russia because I think he could have dealt with this without declaring all out war. But, he did have a point about Nazis.

In 2017, the size of the regiment was estimated at more than 2,500 members,[2] but was estimated to have 900 members in 2022.[24] Members of the battalion came from 22 countries and are of various backgrounds.[25][26] Its founder and early commander was Andriy Biletsky.

Azov Battalion - Wikipedia

If the presence of 900-2,500 confirmed neo-Nazis in a country is a good excuse to invade it, then most of the world may qualify for invasion.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Interesting....I've been noticing some of my fellow posters
on the left engaging in Putin apologetics. So perhaps it's
a bi-partisan problem.

Were those posters specifically saying Putin was right to invade Ukraine, or were they merely criticizing the policies of the U.S. and NATO? I've seen people label the latter kind of criticism "Putin apologetics" without engaging in any discussion about it or trying to understand where it is coming from. It's entirely possible to disapprove of the policies of Western powers and still recognize Putin as a war criminal and colonialist. The two are not mutually exclusive like some seem to imply.

(BTW, more than one poster here
has sung the praises of the Soviet system.)

Which aspects of the Soviet system? Affordable or free health care is great. The Gulag and political purges, not so much.

Singing the praises of the Soviet system as a whole would be horribly mistaken and apologetic toward a generally abusive system, but I see no reason someone couldn't approve of specific aspects of it while opposing others.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It's still a BS excuse. He wants to make himself look like the bad guy, all while attacking places where even some Holocaust survivors live. And it still doesn't suggest or imply there is a deeply rooted problem with Nazis to "de-Nazify" them with indiscriminate bombing and capturing and killing civilians.

The Azov brigade reportedly only has 900-2,500 members. On the other hand, the U.S. Army is one of the largest in the world and has killed more people and committed more war crimes in the last two decades alone than some armies have in at least a century. Furthermore, this is the estimated number of members for just one hate group out of hundreds in the U.S.:

Nationwide, there are still an estimated 3,000 Klan members and unaffiliated people who "identify with Klan ideology," according to the ADL. Membership, though, remains spread across dozens of groups. The largest Klans reportedly don't have more than 50 to 100 active members, and most have fewer than 25.

By that logic, should we also say that the U.S. needs "denazification"? I think that would be absurd and that "denazification" should come from within rather than through a foreign invasion, but perhaps some Putin supporters may think otherwise.

 

[74x12]

Azov Battalion - Wikipedia

If the presence of 900-2,500 confirmed neo-Nazis in a country is a good excuse to invade it, then most of the world may qualify for invasion.

Ignoring the fact that Wikipedia may not be the most reliable source of information on this topic; yet I do agree with you.

The Azov brigade reportedly only has 900-2,500 members. On the other hand, the U.S. Army is one of the largest in the world and has killed more people and committed more war crimes in the last two decades alone than some armies have in at least a century. Furthermore, this is the estimated number of members for just one hate group out of hundreds in the U.S.:



By that logic, should we also say that the U.S. needs "denazification"? I think that would be absurd and that "denazification" should come from within rather than through a foreign invasion, but perhaps some Putin supporters may think otherwise.

If America had a militia as well armed and trained comprised of nothing but Nazis like the Azov brigade then something would be done about it. Yet it's just tolerated and even supported in Ukraine. So, that doesn't realistically equate to anything in America.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just because someone doesn't agree with propagandistic and mendacious demonization of the Soviet system, it doesn't constitute "singing the praises" of that system.

Walk'n it back, eh.

 

[Stevicus]

Walk'n it back, eh.

No, I'm walkin' the dog.

 

[Revoltingest]

Were those posters specifically saying Putin was right to invade Ukraine, or were they merely criticizing the policies of the U.S. and NATO? I've seen people label the latter kind of criticism "Putin apologetics" without engaging in any discussion about it or trying to understand where it is coming from. It's entirely possible to disapprove of the policies of Western powers and still recognize Putin as a war criminal and colonialist. The two are not mutually exclusive like some seem to imply.

Apologetics I've seen....
- Resisting NATO's & USA's threat to Russia.
- Safeguarding Russian culture & religion from western decadence.
- Toppling the Nazis in Ukraine who are oppressing & killing Russians.

Which aspects of the Soviet system?

The improved quality of life relative to capitalism.

 

[Estro Felino]

People like "picking a team," and are quick to label the other team bad or wrong. It's kind of a human thing but obviously sometimes it goes to ridiculous lengths, as we see in this scenario. Both countries have major issues, but we overlook them once we pick which one we want to stand behind.

It deals with very similar nations. So I will say that I side with both nations, Russians and Ukrainians.
I do not side with the leaders of these two nations who wage a very unjust war, while they should be allies.

 

[Estro Felino]

Apologetics I've seen....
- Resisting NATO's & USA's threat to Russia.
- Safeguarding Russian culture & religion from western decadence.
- Toppling the Nazis in Ukraine who are oppressing & killing Russians.

The improved quality of life relative to capitalism.

Well since the NATO intervenes exclusively in countries rich in resources, like Libya, I wonder why the NATO is so interested in Russia...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Azov brigade reportedly only has 900-2,500 members. On the other hand, the U.S. Army is one of the largest in the world and has killed more people and committed more war crimes in the last two decades alone than some armies have in at least a century. Furthermore, this is the estimated number of members for just one hate group out of hundreds in the U.S.:



By that logic, should we also say that the U.S. needs "denazification"? I think that would be absurd and that "denazification" should come from within rather than through a foreign invasion, but perhaps some Putin supporters may think otherwise.

America would be a prime target.
And it's pathetic given Russia and America have both tried to change Afghanistan by force. It didn't work. Why do they think Ukraine will bend, especially when they are putting up such a fierce fight?