confused about religion

[Krunk]

I my self have never believed in god. I am confused with how you can belive in some thing that not consistent in any way. and what is exactly is free will??? i have been reading up on religon and science to figure out which one is right. so far science has been winning to be honest. Fact is my detrming factor and i was wondering if you could give me you side of the story.:help:

 

[Original Freak]

Hmmm....how to start this. As a Strong Atheist I think I'm just going to go with this advice. Educate yourself, be honest with yourself and question everything. This has led me to Atheism and other's to god.

On a side note, you can exist with God and Science together. But unless you're a fundamentalist it then becomes faith (and basically what I consider opinion) and it is no longer proveable / unproveable.

 

[Krunk]

no it cant. its other the one or the other. this new consept of god and science going hand in hand very new. before science could begin to prove it self people where killed because the wanted to learn and figure it out. in other word thinking for them selves. religion now cant denie the fact and is trying to keep there followers in check because they started to ask questions.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I my self have never believed in god. I am confused with how you can belive in some thing that not consistent in any way. and what is exactly is free will??? i have been reading up on religon and science to figure out which one is right. so far science has been winning to be honest. Fact is my detrming factor and i was wondering if you could give me you side of the story.:help:

It would be good to keep in mind the role and scope of religious and scientific testimony. Science studies nature to determine how nature works, and is limited to the natural realm. Religion can be a systematic belief system based upon divine revelation, as is the case for Christianity and Judaism, or it can be a philosophy like Bhuddism. Where religion is based upon belief in the divine, scientific method cannot be used to verify the belief, unless of course the religious belief touches nature.

The Christian and Jewish religion touch nature by claiming that their God interacts with history; the historical facts of the case can be analyzed, but science still cannot determine of God actually worked in the case because there is no test that can verify the divine, if indeed the divine exists as Creator and not as the created (nature).

Therefore, you should not regard religion as correct and science as wrong or vice versa, the two fields are not mutually exclusive. Since science cannot demonstate that the divine exists, no scientific fact can be used to say most probably that God exists or not. However, where religion tries to dictate science, science can disprove religion.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

no it cant. its other the one or the other. this new consept of god and science going hand in hand very new. before science could begin to prove it self people where killed because the wanted to learn and figure it out. in other word thinking for them selves. religion now cant denie the fact and is trying to keep there followers in check because they started to ask questions.

It looks like your frame of reference here is limited only to the West.

Perhaps you have already made up your mind?

 

[Krunk]

science is not not only nature. that is a peice of the whole thing. science is everything. and why meddle with things that cant be proven? what are the benifits of religion?

 

[michel]

no it cant. its other the one or the other. this new consept of god and science going hand in hand very new. before science could begin to prove it self people where killed because the wanted to learn and figure it out. in other word thinking for them selves. religion now cant denie the fact and is trying to keep there followers in check because they started to ask questions.

Hi Krunk,

You don't explain why you think science and religion can't go 'hand in hand'. You say that the concept of God and science in tandem is very new. Have you thought of - for example, the Egyptians, who were so obviously very talented in the sciences ? They were great metalurgists, alchemists, and mathematicians - the pyramids themselves are a lasting example of their evolved knowledge.
At the same time, I know that they did not believe in one God; a source of what they believed in is probably well explained in the following link:-http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/creation.htm

 

[angellous_evangellous]

science is not not only nature. that is a peice of the whole thing. science is everything. and why meddle with things that cant be proven? what are the benifits of religion?

I don't think that you are going to be able to defend that science can measure anything outside of the realm of nature. Science is not everything, it is the review, study, and classification of what we know to exist in the natural cosmos - and we are developing ways to discover more. As we discover something, we determine for ourselves how best to relate to it, whether we use it as a tool (X-Rays, light waves, etc) or avoid it (posionous snakes, etc).

Christianity and Judaism are examples of religions that confess the Divine revealed Himself to prophets - since God revealed Himself (forever unreachable by science and philosophy), God determines how humanity can best relate to Him. The benefits are that if we take the prophets at their word (eg, that they heard from God), then we obey the command of God and live in right relationship with Him. Christians look toward the fulfilled prophesies in Jesus Christ as evidence that the prophets of Judaism tol the truth. Loving our neighbor and living humbly are beneficial. Having the peace of the Holy Spirit is beneficial, meditating on the Word of God and worshipping Him has health benefits (eg, less stress, hope in the provision of the Lord).

 

[Silvanus]

Hasn't science always gone hand in hand with religion? especially with ancient cultures. I also believe the Abrahamic religions have their sciences too. I know Islam values science....

 

[jewscout]

i have been reading up on religon and science to figure out which one is right. so far science has been winning to be honest

well at least your exploring both sides...whichever works best for you Krunk

Fact is my detrming factor and i was wondering if you could give me you side of the story.

Funny thing about facts...sometimes they aren't really facts...
i wonder what a the facts of the American Civil War would be if you ask the Grand Wizard of the Klan to write one essay and the leader of the NAACP to write another...do you think they would be the same?

before science could begin to prove it self people where killed because the wanted to learn and figure it out. in other word thinking for them selves. religion now cant denie the fact and is trying to keep there followers in check because they started to ask questions.

why i'm not a christian...but then i had a very negative experience in my life...others would disagree tho

and why meddle with things that cant be proven?

to find answers...just because it looks like it can't be done doesn't mean it can't
i imagine people said something similar when people first tried to build airplanes...man was never meant to fly remember? You can't break the sound barrier! There's only room in the world for 3 personal computers...

what are the benifits of religion?

like A_E said...i think you've reached conclusions on religion already...

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...Educate yourself, be honest with yourself and question everything. This has led me to Atheism and other's to god...

Excellent advice and I concur!

I think one of the problems many people face is that they make up their minds and then go looking for something to read that supports what they already knew to be true. IMHO, that's a waste of time. This goes for atheists as well as theists.

One question I would ask, 'Are you reading up on religion to understand it, or just to figure out how to prove it wrong?' Either way, I'd say you are exercising your free will, your right to explore what you believe and see where it leads you.

As you continue to study, you will find that different religions view various scientific efforts differently. It's your faith journey, and I encourage you to explore all possibilities and not rule them out prematurely. Then you will be content and confident in any conclusions you draw.

 

[Krunk]

the benfits as it seems comes from within i could meditate about flowing water and get the same effect. the Egyptians where very intelligent but they did not worship "god". they worshiped there pharoh which was a there king. also they did not question what they did not know. and the science that go beyond this so called realm in the "spirtiual world" is quantum pysics. and what about free will? how is that supposed to work. do you belive in heaven and hell?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

very negative experience in my life

I am sorry to hear this

I hear this very often, and since the revelation of sex abuses and other sins committed by the Church, I have no doubt as to how serious this negative experience can be. I have also had negative experiences in the Church, but my positive experiences both mystical (personal communion with God) and communal (fellowship within the Chrisitan community) far outwiegh the negative.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

the benfits as it seems comes from within i could meditate about flowing water and get the same effect. the Egyptians where very intelligent but they did not worship "god". they worshiped there pharoh which was a there king. also they did not question what they did not know. and the science that go beyond this so called realm in the "spirtiual world" is quantum pysics. and what about free will? how is that supposed to work. do you belive in heaven and hell?

Quantum physics is the exception of science going beyond nature, but it proves nothing. It is more philosophy than science, as it is theory concerning what cannot be observed, and it relies heavily upon existentialism. Perhaps it is the closest thing to belief in the divine.

Freewill is debated heavily in Christian theology, and I honestly have not fully made up my mind on this topic. IMHO, freedom is the most important gift from God to humanity. He has made himself inaccessable through science and philosophy so that we can reject Him and live out our lives in freedom.

Yes, I believe in heaven and hell, and perhaps we should discuss that elsewhere.

 

[Krunk]

ahh yes the questions that could be proven. no i have never reached one because im open minded. how could you than man wasnt ment to do something?? that is the aditude that has limited us as human beings. we can do anything. the not so far future will allow that in way you could never imagine. things that will defie this omnipower you say god has. try me ask me a question that you think that we could never do im serous and maybe you will see that we are advanceing past the need for religion.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

ahh yes the questions that could be proven. no i have never reached one because im open minded. how could you than man wasnt ment to do something?? that is the aditude that has limited us as human beings. we can do anything. the not so far future will allow that in way you could never imagine. things that will defie this omnipower you say god has. try me ask me a question that you think that we could never do im serous and maybe you will see that we are advanceing past the need for religion.

This statement is irrationally optimistic.

 

[Krunk]

im seriuos!!!!!!!!!!!!! ask science can and will do all that god has promised and not deliverd. how about the end of death?

 

[michel]

ahh yes the questions that could be proven. no i have never reached one because im open minded. how could you than man wasnt ment to do something?? that is the aditude that has limited us as human beings. we can do anything. the not so far future will allow that in way you could never imagine. things that will defie this omnipower you say god has. try me ask me a question that you think that we could never do im serous and maybe you will see that we are advanceing past the need for religion.

You can't do anything - you can't fly like a bird, you cannot make the sun shine, you cannot make it rain - do you really think science will ever be able to achieve those things ?

 

[Krunk]

one the bird thing its called a airplane second its called nuclear fisson and three yes already have control over the weather but NATO made it illegel in the 70's

 

[jewscout]

the benfits as it seems comes from within i could meditate about flowing water and get the same effect. the Egyptians where very intelligent but they did not worship "god". they worshiped there pharoh which was a there king. also they did not question what they did not know. and the science that go beyond this so called realm in the "spirtiual world" is quantum pysics.

Hey whatever floats your boat!

and what about free will? how is that supposed to work.

ummm you choose to do something and then you do it

do you belive in heaven and hell?

no not in the christian sense...