Connecticut School Shooting

[darkendless]

Except the likelihood of them drawing is about nill. Living in a very Right Wing State that has an easy to obtain CCW and Open Carry no one did **** during various mass shootings.

Trolley Square shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Packed mall easily tons of guns there and no one does **** except for an off-duty officer with his service weapon. But sure lets live in this fantasy where lone gunmen kill lone gunmen like it is Western Territories again.

Lets not even bring up the fantasy of Americans thinking guns do anything but exacerbate tense situations.

 

[NIX]

*sigh*. I also suggested that the idea could be reversed and ex cops who could also properly qualify as teacher's assistants or maintenance or WHATEVER might also be employed.

OBVIOUSLY, and I'm only going to say it once more -- ONLY THOSE PROPERLY TRAINED PRACTICED AND QUALIFIED WOULD BE QUALIFIED AND INSTALLED AS EMERGENCY SITUATION DEFENSE SHOOTERS.


The question I'm beginning to ask tonight is "What makes me think that people actually bother to read my posts before responding to them?".

Except the likelihood of them drawing is about nill. Living in a very Right Wing State that has an easy to obtain CCW and Open Carry no one did **** during various mass shootings.

Trolley Square shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Packed mall easily tons of guns there and no one does **** except for an off-duty officer with his service weapon. But sure lets live in this fantasy where lone gunmen kill lone gunmen like it is Western Territories again.

And once again the relevant parts of my post (to your comments) seem to have gone invisible.

I shall highlight with my handy red invisible ink underlining pen. :cover:

 

[NIX]

Okay. Since you all seem to be shooting my ideas down on sight (without even comprehensively reading them), how about tasers.
A friend of mine suggested that.

According to Wiki you can maintain a 'safe distance' while using a tazer. (though I'm not sure how much of a distance that is).

And yet we have moron cops.

Use in schools and on children
Taser International asserts that the taser is safe for use on anyone weighing 60 pounds (27 kg) or more.[citation needed] Police officers that patrol schools, including grade schools, in several U.S. states (including Kansas, Minnesota, Kentucky, Virginia and Florida) have been carrying tasers since the early 2000s. In 2004, the parents of a 6-year-old boy in Miami sued the police department for firing a taser at their child. The police said the boy was threatening to injure his own leg with a shard of glass, and claimed that using the device was the only option to stop the boy from injuring himself. Nevertheless, the boy's mother told CNN that the three officers involved might have found it easier to reason with her child. Two weeks later, a 12-year-old girl skipping school was tasered in Miami-Dade.[74] In March 2008, an 11-year old girl was shocked by a Taser.[75] In March 2009, a 15-year-old boy died in Michigan after being tasered.[76]
Taser supporters suggest that the use in schools consists of merely switching on the device followed with threatening to use it, which can be effective in frightening violent or uncooperative students. This is the method, only if verbal reprimands have not succeeded. Critics counter that tasers may interact with preexisting medical complications such as medications, and may even contribute to someone's death as a result. Critics also suggest that using a taser on a minor, particularly a young child, is effectively cruel and abusive punishment, or unnecessary.[77][78][79][80]

As I said. Lock boxes. School employee first- emergency defender second.
Even if we are talking about employing cops or ex/retired cops part or full time.
People ARE capable of being 'multi trained' and multi talented.

I don't want officers patroling my child's school. I don't want police 'policing' my children.
I would love to have one or two working there as a school employee with an emergency situation fail safe system in place though.
And not in uniform (unless there is some unusual situation where a police presence is exactly what's needed- as it sometimes is).

ok. now you can all shoot me down again.

 

[NIX]

In conjunction with (gun)fire doors that close automatically like fire doors (as Reverand Rick suggested), heavy duty bullet proof glass and strategically located safe rooms as I suggested, the addition of some variety of my other idea would be pretty uninvasive I think. I think I'm done being strategically creative in here now. I'm not an expert or even experienced in any of these matters, but I do see that at least the schools by me have no self defense system in place at all.
Probably it's not necessary, probably nothing will ever happen- but they are our children. We owe them at least some line of potential emergency defense and prevention.

In light of all the current tragedy I'm too tired to participate in this conversation any more.
I have no agenda/s here whatsoever beyond the well being and safety of our children in general.
Just please refrain from misrepresenting what I have said in my posts if you choose to respond to them further. Thanks.

 

[Mister_T]

You keep putting words in my mouth... um..posts. Who said anything about forcing any teachers to do anything?

I'm not trying to put any words in your mouth, I'm just going off of what you post. Explaining things a bit more in detail previously would have helped me understand what your points actually are.

Certainly volunteers who feel they are well cut out for such a role would make up the candidate pool from which the ones who qualify well in the end would be selected. There is no reason they couldn't also be compensated for the time they spend in training and practice. It's just an idea obviously, but I really don't think it's unworty of consideration and tweaking.

If a teacher or staff member wants to voluntarily be trained in firearms, I wouldn't stop them or even be against it. The idea of a gun or guns though being on campus that's not strapped to a cop just doesn't sit right with me, though.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The idea of a gun or guns though being on campus that's not strapped to a cop just doesn't sit right with me, though.

How would you feel about them having a non-lethal weapon like a taser?

It would at least give them some ability to respond with less liability.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

If a teacher or staff member wants to voluntarily be trained in firearms, I wouldn't stop them or even be against it. The idea of a gun or guns though being on campus that's not strapped to a cop just doesn't sit right with me, though.

It just puzzles me some times, how it is OK for a policeman to possess the object in the location, but not OK for another profession. The object is the same, the use is the same, the danger is the same, responsibility is the same.

For pete's sake how many cops kill innocent people with excessive force? They are certainly no more responsible nor trust-able than any other person.

This idea sort of ties in with my confusion about why police should be allowed to possess assault rifles while the rest of the citizenry cannot.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It just puzzles me some times, how it is OK for a policeman to possess the object in the location, but not OK for another profession. The object is the same, the use is the same, the danger is the same, responsibility is the same.

For pete's sake how many cops kill innocent people with excessive force? They are certainly no more responsible nor trust-able than any other person.

This idea sort of ties in with my confusion about why police should be allowed to possess assault rifles while the rest of the citizenry cannot.

:clap

There are many private citizens and ex-military that have more firearm training than the police

 

[Dingbat]

:clap

There are many private citizens and ex-military that have more firearm training than the police

That is part of my complaint to be honest. The police typically have ****** firearms training so I can't expect teachers to get much better. Honestly local cops scare me as I know how little time they spend on the range.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I wish our CCW license had levels.

Proficient
Advanced
Marksman
Expert

The higher the level, the more permissions we could enjoy.

Who would have a problem with an expert carrying on a plane or in a school?

 

[Mister_T]

How would you feel about them having a non-lethal weapon like a taser?

It would at least give them some ability to respond with less liability.

I would feel much better about a taser.

 

[Reverend Rick]

You could have the staff at the school trained to use a taser in about the same time it took to be CPR certified.

 

[Mister_T]

It just puzzles me some times, how it is OK for a policeman to possess the object in the location, but not OK for another profession. The object is the same, the use is the same, the danger is the same, responsibility is the same.

For pete's sake how many cops kill innocent people with excessive force? They are certainly no more responsible nor trust-able than any other person.

This idea sort of ties in with my confusion about why police should be allowed to possess assault rifles while the rest of the citizenry cannot.

Police Brutality is a different issue, one that I'd more than likely agree with you on.

A cop though, has regular and frequent firearms training because it's part of their job, as is being able to use that firearm under pressure. Compared to say a school teacher, he/she is an expert. Tell you what, if you want to someone to shoot an apple off of your head, who are going to ask to do it: A cop, or Mrs. Brewkowski from English 1A? If you say anything other than a cop, you're either lying or you have a death wish. :cover: Can you imagine a bunch of teachers/amateur gunslingers firing off rounds when there is a threat present? You're going to wind up with more injuries and fatalities then if you had one or two police officers on hand to take that person out with relative ease. :cover:

 

[Reverend Rick]

A marksman can hit the bulls eye of a target while standing still. An expert knows anatomy and where in the brain that controls motor skills is located. They also study ballistics and know what ammunition to use, the proper penetration desired and have the ability to precision shoot while moving.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Police Brutality is a different issue, one that I'd more than likely agree with you on.

A cop though, has regular and frequent firearms training because it's part of their job, as is being able to use that firearm under pressure. Compared to say a school teacher, he/she is an expert. Tell you what, if you want to someone to shoot an apple off of your head, who are going to ask to do it: A cop, or Mrs. Brewkowski from English 1A? If you say anything other than a cop, you're either lying or you have a death wish. :cover: Can you imagine a bunch of teachers/amateur gunslingers firing off rounds when there is a threat present? You're going to wind up with more injuries and fatalities then if you had one or two police officers on hand to take that person out with relative ease. :cover:

Don't be silly, there is no reason whatsoever that a cop is somehow an expert marksman whom I would trust to shoot an apple off my head. In all the police take downs you've read o lately, there are often a score of bullets fired and one or two hits, at most. Cops are no marksmen, they panic and fire blindly, often first, and being in a position of authority are exactly as likely, if not more so, to shoot someone over their own emotional issues. It happens all the time. Hell, they don't need lethal weapons to do it, since they have other weapons on them, and immunity from prosecution in 90%-odd of the cases.
And a small note: police brutality is certainly part of the issue if it's committed with a firearm.

You are mischaracterizing the fact that citizens who go through the trouble to get all the red tape permits to own firearms, don't train nor are a conscientious as a cop would be; they did, after all, go through the effort of seeking out ownership, too.
Perhaps you are not exposed to such people, but anecdotally I can tell you that once you receive your permits, there is a sort of duty-like reverence that often comes on the gun owner - no, not in all cases. But still, the fact that you went thru the government to get this license, often imbues the entire zone of interest with the household firearm you now have, with a different solemnity than other things. I also know hunters who go through this.

There's no reason to presume that somehow only military or law personnel somehow get this.

 

[Iti oj]

Police Brutality is a different issue, one that I'd more than likely agree with you on.

A cop though, has regular and frequent firearms training because it's part of their job, as is being able to use that firearm under pressure. Compared to say a school teacher, he/she is an expert. Tell you what, if you want to someone to shoot an apple off of your head, who are going to ask to do it: A cop, or Mrs. Brewkowski from English 1A? If you say anything other than a cop, you're either lying or you have a death wish. :cover: Can you imagine a bunch of teachers/amateur gunslingers firing off rounds when there is a threat present? You're going to wind up with more injuries and fatalities then if you had one or two police officers on hand to take that person out with relative ease. :cover:

This is silly obviously teachers would receive regular training and mental health checks. If this were to be.

 

[Dingbat]

This is silly obviously teachers would receive regular training and mental health checks. If this were to be.

Why would teachers be held to a higher standard than most police officers?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Why would teachers be held to a higher standard than most police officers?

^^ Hence why I often complain that it is the beat cops who should be disarmed :yes:

 

[Dingbat]

^^ Hence why I often complain that it is the beat cops who should be disarmed :yes:

Can't disagree I have had local cops drawn down on me before. My crime? Trying to get back into my house after locking myself out. Totally worth the gung ho jumping out of the cruiser with gun drawn though.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Thank Gods they didn't have tasers, they coulda killed you!