Conscious Universe

[Guitar's Cry]

The Universe is conscious because we are. We are intrinsically a part of the Universe, and are the conscious extensions of it.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Because I haven't the slightest idea of what that might mean. It's like "ceasing to eat by eating." You tell me.

The universe at one point started existing, not as a reaction to anything. I'd say that's an action not determined by reaction.

 

[Quintessence]

Don't use the word. Too problematic.

It's worth noting that pre-literate indigenous cultures probably wouldn't have asked this question. Not because they weren't capable, but because their sensory immersion in the other-than-human world was so total that the answer would have been intuitively obvious to them. They wouldn't have used that word either. Not sure it is even a word, really. A feeling. A sensation. An awareness. A knowing?

 

[Jimmy]

Interesting.

So something larger than the Universe (ie above reality) has something more than conciousness? Am I understanding you right?

No, the uninverse is above

 

[The Hammer]

No, the uninverse is above

Not following. But ok.

 

[The Hammer]

Don't use the word. Too problematic.

It's worth noting that pre-literate indigenous cultures probably wouldn't have asked this question. Not because they weren't capable, but because their sensory immersion in the other-than-human world was so total that the answer would have been intuitively obvious to them. They wouldn't have used that word either. Not sure it is even a word, really. A feeling. A sensation. An awareness. A knowing?

Now, an awareness, a sensation, a knowing these are certainly better terms in discussing universe/consciousness. But I tried to use language the majority would be familiar with at least in an interfaith context.

edited: I think I originally misinterpreted your meaning @Quintessence .

 

[JDMS]

Don't use the word. Too problematic.

It's worth noting that pre-literate indigenous cultures probably wouldn't have asked this question. Not because they weren't capable, but because their sensory immersion in the other-than-human world was so total that the answer would have been intuitively obvious to them. They wouldn't have used that word either. Not sure it is even a word, really. A feeling. A sensation. An awareness. A knowing?

This comes across as weirdly fetishistic of indigenous people.

Also, which indigenous people are you referring to? You should specify, unless you mean to make a monolith out of thousands of different groups of people spanning an entire globe and several thousand years of temporal separation.

 

[Jimmy]

Not following. But ok.

I never said something was larger than the universe

 

[The Hammer]

I never said something was larger than the universe

You're right. My reading track record today is terrible.

 

[Stevicus]

As a Pagan, I have always known that Nature and of course the Universe as a whole, is alive, as are all of the parts of the whole individually alive in their own unique ways separate from the whole. Animated by Spirit if you want to call it that.

Now, where I waffle back and forth is whether I would consider the universe to be conscious though.

We are aware of and familiar with the Universe in much the same way that an organism in your gut microbiome is aware of your presence. Can that microbe be aware of your consciousness? Are you aware of the consciousness of the microbes in your gut Flora?

What do your traditions say? Is the Universe Conscious. Is it aware? Is this even considered?

I sometimes speculate on such things, both about the Universe as a whole and also about the Earth itself. I've considered the possibility that the Universe is just one big giant brain, which we're part of, but seemingly a very small part. But considering the immense size and vastness of the Universe, it's kind of mind boggling to think of it all being part of a singular consciousness.

 

[RestlessSoul]

You are asking all the wrong questions, because you are making invalid comparisons. The only thing that signifies consciousness is that it (sometimes) reacts to stimuli in something other than a purely physical way. (The 8 ball in pool is not conscious of being hit by the cue ball, but moves anyway using nothing more complicated than Newton's laws of motion.)

If you can show an example of the universe reacting to something that has been done to it -- outside of that purely physical action-reaction response -- then we might consider it. Otherwise, why even bother?

Who are you to tell another they are asking all the wrong questions? Have you resolved the Hard Problem of Consciousness? Are you well versed in the Philosophy of Mind? Familiar with Integrated Information Theory? And who is this ‘we’ who might consider this or that line of enquiry to be worth the bother?

 

[Aupmanyav]

As a Pagan, I have always known that Nature and of course the Universe as a whole, is alive, as are all of the parts of the whole individually alive in their own unique ways separate from the whole. Animated by Spirit if you want to call it that.
Now, where I waffle back and forth is whether I would consider the universe to be conscious though.
What do your traditions say? Is the Universe Conscious. Is it aware? Is this even considered?

I too am a pagan (Hinduism is a pagan religion). Universe is conscious in its own way (i.e., conscious but not in a human way). Nothing is separated in the universe. All in it is composed of only one substrate. Even if I drop a spoon, it reverberates even to the farthest regions of the universe.
I do not use the theist words like spirit. I follow the non-dual path of Hinduism (Advaita).

Are you well versed in the Philosophy of Mind?

Do you think that philosophers have the answer? And would the answers come only through philosophy?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Don't use the word. Too problematic.

It's worth noting that pre-literate indigenous cultures probably wouldn't have asked this question. Not because they weren't capable, but because their sensory immersion in the other-than-human world was so total that the answer would have been intuitively obvious to them. They wouldn't have used that word either. Not sure it is even a word, really. A feeling. A sensation. An awareness. A knowing?

Don't use the word 'universe?'

 

[RestlessSoul]

I too am a pagan (Hinduism is a pagan religion). Universe is conscious in its own way (i.e., conscious but not in a human way). Nothing is separated in the universe. All in it is composed of only one substrate. Even if I drop a spoon, it reverberates even to the farthest regions of the universe.
I do not use the theist words like spirit. I follow the non-dual path of Hinduism (Advaita).

Do you think that philosophers have the answer? And would the answers come only through philosophy?

I don’t think anyone has all the answers, nor ever will. But I see no reason not to keep asking questions. The great discoveries all came about because imaginative individuals were prepared to ask those questions conventional thinkers considered foolish.

 

[SalixIncendium]

As a Pagan...

I too am a pagan (Hinduism is a pagan religion).

The two terms above point to two different things.

Pagan, as @The Hammer uses it, points to Neo-Paganism, aka modern Paganism.

The same word with a lower case 'p' points to a non-Christian or pre-Christian belief system.

The former is commonly distinguished from the latter with the use of a capital 'P.'

Hinduism is, indeed, a pagan religion, but it's not under the umbrella of (neo) Paganism.

 

[ChristineM]

Is the Universe Conscious. Is it aware? Is this even considered

Consciousness/awareness requires complex chemistry that exists in patches in the universe but not in the universe as a whole. My view therefore is no, the universe is not conscious but has produced consciousness.

I have literally just finished watching this.

It touches on the subject.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Consciousness/awareness requires complex chemistry that exists in patches in the universe but not in the universe as a whole. My view therefore is no, the universe is not conscious but has produced consciousness.

I have literally just finished watching this.

It touches on the subject.

So something non-conscious caused the effect of consciousness. How does that work? And in that non-conscious as the universe as such is something conscious? How does that work?
I am not going to debate you here, but to me, it doesn't make sense. But I accept that it does to you.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

As a Pagan, I have always known that Nature and of course the Universe as a whole, is alive, as are all of the parts of the whole individually alive in their own unique ways separate from the whole. Animated by Spirit if you want to call it that.

Now, where I waffle back and forth is whether I would consider the universe to be conscious though.

We are aware of and familiar with the Universe in much the same way that an organism in your gut microbiome is aware of your presence. Can that microbe be aware of your consciousness? Are you aware of the consciousness of the microbes in your gut Flora?

What do your traditions say? Is the Universe Conscious. Is it aware? Is this even considered?

Yes. And different religions have different terms for this consciousness, use different parables to explain our relation to it and reach different conclusions about how best to live accordingly.

Christian scripture, for instance, says that Man is in God and exists in God’s image.

In context “Man” is humanity, but in a broader sense, the term represents both conscious incarnation and physical manifestation (our universe in general) and “God” is universal -as in all-consuming- consciousness.


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Consciousness/awareness requires complex chemistry that exists in patches in the universe but not in the universe as a whole. My view therefore is no, the universe is not conscious but has produced consciousness.

I can see that! However, I think it's a matter of identity. My left humerus isn't conscious, but it is a part of me: a body that is conscious. This is because I identify with it and it is part of the system that produces consciousness.

For those that identify as a part of the Whole, or put another way, recognize that there is no separation between their bodies and the rest of everything, the Universe producing consciousness is identifying themselves in a system that is conscious of itself. I can point to light from the distant past in the night sky and say "That is a part of who I am."

 

[ChristineM]

I can see that! However, I think it's a matter of identity. My left humerus isn't conscious, but it is a part of me: a body that is conscious. This is because I identify with it and it is part of the system that produces consciousness.

For those that identify as a part of the Whole, or put another way, recognize that there is no separation between their bodies and the rest of everything, the Universe producing consciousness is identifying themselves in a system that is conscious of itself. I can point to light from the distant past in the night sky and say "That is a part of who I am."

That is one view but is that sun or its light conscious?

I say no, it's chemistry is not complex enough to become conscious