Consciousness in Cavemen? A Debate.

[mickiel]

How do you even know primordial man existed if your mind is the only source? You weren't exactly around to witness them yourself, so there must be some kind of outside sources that influenced your beliefs...

Well Archaeology has influnced my belief, and the bible, plus there is only one other book that influenced me. The orgin of Consciousness, by late author Julian Jaynes. Although I do not agree with Jaynes in all of his views, some of them did influence me, although I changed them in my mind. A hard read because he was an intellectual, and writes like one, but I reconmend the book, something I rarely do.

Other outside things have influenced me, you know that, but I filter those things through my own understanding. And I think thats a normal thing to do. His book is a challange, his mind I think advanced. As I consider the bible advanced.

Peace.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Mickiel!!!!

You're back, and in fine form.

Still can't back up your assertions i see.

Well it's good to have you back.

-Q

 

[mickiel]

Mickiel!!!!

You're back, and in fine form.

Still can't back up your assertions i see.

Well it's good to have you back.

-Q

Well its good to be back, thank you. I back up my understanding sufficent to me, perhaps not to others, but I am convinced. My mind was not meant for baseless tribial nonsense, I am attracted by the real truth. And real truth is just not understood by humanity, hardly by me myself. But I am learning, and I refuse to put out worthless nonsense into the mind of others.

God has certain " Needs", believe it or not. Jesus " Needed a Colt to ride on", in his entrance into Jerusalem. God " Needed to create primordal humans unconscious", before he created humans with Consciousness. And I am excited by that, extremely interested in it. Such mystery attracts my Consciousness, thrills it!

And I want to go into the thrill of attraction to our Consciousness. It literally defines us.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I am thrilled by Life itself, being a Conscious being, I realize 1,000 years ago I simply didnot exist. I was not dead, just not existing yet in reality. I refuse to accept that my life is happenstance normenclature, or meaningless chance, I must mean something during those years I didnot exist. In my view, I meant something to my creator God, he knew I would one day exist. He planned perfectly on it. He gave me life, and life for " A Reason." Perhaps I fail to complettely understand it, but I am here, " We" are here! And A God of Reason, must then create for a reason.

Primordal man was far different from me, I think showing no tangible evidence of Consciousness. Why did God do that?

That intrest me without end.

And I want to go into why.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

A train has a track, and that track provides direction for the train, it must go in that direction. Primordal man was a " Track of God", destined to point Conscious humans in a certain direction. Just laied out by God, to provide us with direction. The advent of the belief in evolution, seeks to derail human orgin, and place the track of our existence onto meaningless happenstance. The glory of creation and purpose, is blindsided by the effort to cause creation by itself, or life creating itself, thus creation becomes creator. We take charge of our orgin, and our destiny. And naturally exclude God.

Let me examine what that has done to human consciousness, as it relates to the baseless mind of primordal man.

Peace.

 

[logician]

The future cannot be predicted in a chaotic universe, because no sufficient model can be made to represent it.

 

[Amill]

A train has a track, and that track provides direction for the train, it must go in that direction. Primordal man was a " Track of God", destined to point Conscious humans in a certain direction. Just laied out by God, to provide us with direction. The advent of the belief in evolution, seeks to derail human orgin, and place the track of our existence onto meaningless happenstance. The glory of creation and purpose, is blindsided by the effort to cause creation by itself, or life creating itself, thus creation becomes creator. We take charge of our orgin, and our destiny. And naturally exclude God.

Let me examine what that has done to human consciousness, as it relates to the baseless mind of primordal man.

Peace.

You know its really kind of sad to see people continually pretend to be ignorant. Its been said numerous times that a belief in Evolution doesn't exclude god... Just ask the majority of evolutionists. You know this perfectly well yet you still feel the need to make out Evolution to be this godless villain. You know that you don't have evidence against evolution, so the only arguments you can come up with deal with reasons and possible motives for people's beliefs, which you just make up. It gets kind of old, and its offensive to the tens or hundreds of millions of people that believe in both God and Evolution. Why do you continue to pretend?

 

[mickiel]

You know its really kind of sad to see people continually pretend to be ignorant. Its been said numerous times that a belief in Evolution doesn't exclude god... Just ask the majority of evolutionists. You know this perfectly well yet you still feel the need to make out Evolution to be this godless villain. You know that you don't have evidence against evolution, so the only arguments you can come up with deal with reasons and possible motives for people's beliefs, which you just make up. It gets kind of old, and its offensive to the tens or hundreds of millions of people that believe in both God and Evolution. Why do you continue to pretend?

I continue because its what I believe. I have downloaded many pictures of our universe in space, the sheer dynamic of it thrills me. I look at the star clusters, the magnanomous beauty of it sets me back. I think to myself, there must be a God somewhere. I consider my own mind, because I know me better than anythingelse. I know how I think about things, how I dismiss so many things. I consider how the thought of there being a God has gripped me and willnot let loose. I can't control it, it is " In me." Consumes my consciousness. This tells me theres more to it than meets my eye. When I can't control something, I then sense a power greater than mine, which willnot release me.

Many can dismiss there being a God, they are not " Gripped " by it. It defintely has its hands on me, and my mind. And I don't disagree with the grip, or I would fight. God has already shown me that it is complettely useless to fight, I am no match for him. Nowhere even approaching it. It is my destiny.

So I do not pretend, I am held captive by a God I do not know, and he willnot release me. I don't know what he will do to me, but he has me. He has not revealed himself to me, but I know he is there. I know I didnot do this to myself, I cannot open my mind like he has. I can't make up my Consciousness, its being made.

Peace.

 

[logician]

" Its been said numerous times that a belief in Evolution doesn't exclude god... "

There are 2 problems with this statement, one is that evolution is not a belief, it is a science. Two, there are certainly many god definitions excluded by the fact of evolution.

 

[mickiel]

" Its been said numerous times that a belief in Evolution doesn't exclude god... "

There are 2 problems with this statement, one is that evolution is not a belief, it is a science. Two, there are certainly many god definitions excluded by the fact of evolution.

Evolution is not a science, its a frustrated attempt to restore fact to a preasummed nonaccepted belief in God. Its " The other Lion", chosen to make the kill in the fact of Creation. The definition of creation, must include Creator, or its null and void. To believe that life can evolve from this null and void, is to give power to the null and void that is really the base of evolution. Evolution cannot avoid the premise of determination comming from null and void, its the only starting point they can present. They premote that all things determinate, came from indeterminate processes, which is absolute reckless reason. Such believers in such rabble, bring this illogical orgin to an immense boil, and fry their belief in useless effort to prove that there is no God.

They must disprove God, or they loose.

It is impossible to disprove God, and very possible to prove him.

And Atheism is the biggest proof of God, the most reliable.

And I want to go back into that.

Peace.

 

[Amill]

" Its been said numerous times that a belief in Evolution doesn't exclude god... "

There are 2 problems with this statement, one is that evolution is not a belief, it is a science. Two, there are certainly many god definitions excluded by the fact of evolution.

I accept Evolution as science and fact as well. But if I state that I believe that the theory of Evolution to be the correct explanation for the diversity of life, does that not count as a belief? I consider it a belief that has a large amount of support. I don't know why it matters if people call it a belief.

Mickiel you still ignored my point. Many evolutionists believe in God and see his majesty in the Universe just like you do. They just think things have come about differently than you do. That's what you keep ignoring. You claim that people believe in evolution to exclude god, but if that's the case why do so many Evolutionists still have faith? Do you not ever think about that?

 

[mickiel]

I accept Evolution as science and fact as well. But if I state that I believe that the theory of Evolution to be the correct explanation for the diversity of life, does that not count as a belief? I consider it a belief that has a large amount of support. I don't know why it matters if people call it a belief.

Mickiel you still ignored my point. Many evolutionists believe in God and see his majesty in the Universe just like you do. They just think things have come about differently than you do. That's what you keep ignoring. You claim that people believe in evolution to exclude god, but if that's the case why do so many Evolutionists still have faith? Do you not ever think about that?

Because its internal contridiction. Things don't evolve, they grow in the pattern that God designed. The evolutionist who believe in God, I don't hold a problem with them, its the ones who do not believe in God that I disagree with.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Primordal man was a " Test Run", I think God was observing them, learning human behavior. But he didnot want to " Judge these humans", so he gave them no Consciousness. Its like baking a cake, but leaving out the most important ingredients, because your not after " Taste", this cake willnot be eatened, you just want to observe the process of " Cooking", and see what happens.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[freethinker44]

Primordal man was a " Test Run", I think God was observing them, learning human behavior. But he didnot want to " Judge these humans", so he gave them no Consciousness. Its like baking a cake, but leaving out the most important ingredients, because your not after " Taste", this cake willnot be eatened, you just want to observe the process of " Cooking", and see what happens.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Your god doesn't really sound like a god at all.

 

[mickiel]

Your god doesn't really sound like a god at all.

Well I agree, at times he doesn't.

But then at times he does. And I am going to examine those times he does, as well as those times he does not.

I got nothing better to do.

Peace.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Primordal man was a " Test Run", I think God was observing them, learning human behavior. But he didnot want to " Judge these humans", so he gave them no Consciousness. Its like baking a cake, but leaving out the most important ingredients, because your not after " Taste", this cake willnot be eatened, you just want to observe the process of " Cooking", and see what happens.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Why would a perfect, all knowing being like God need to create a test subject in order to learn how it behaves?

That doesn't sound like a omnipotent and perfect being to me.

 

[mickiel]

Why would a perfect, all knowing being like God need to create a test subject in order to learn how it behaves?

That doesn't sound like a omnipotent and perfect being to me.

Nor to me, but it was done for some reason I'd like to know. I just can't figure it out, but theres something to it, because I highly doubt that they held Consciousness. So its the only thing, thus far, thats makes connectional sense to me. God allowed Adam to actually " Name all the animals he had created", he could have named them himself, but the bible says that " He wanted to see what Adam would call them." That was very important, and a very " Revealing thing about this all powerful God." He has intrest IN his creations, how they will think and behave, so I don't think he always dictates that.

In fact, I think the creation of Primordal man, was a preperation for giving humans Consciousness, which includes the ability to think for yourself.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[logician]

Evolution is fact, there are various "theories" that explain the mechanics of it. None of it is based upon belief, just upon evidence. The evidence supporting evolution is just as convincing as that supporting any other science.

 

[mickiel]

Evolution is fact, there are various "theories" that explain the mechanics of it. None of it is based upon belief, just upon evidence. The evidence supporting evolution is just as convincing as that supporting any other science.

Lets see the evidence that evolution is a fact.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Lets see the evidence that evolution is a fact.

Peace.

Weeks go by, and no evidence is produced. Atheist always sing their song to you of producing evidence, yet can produce none themselves.

Peace.