Consensual sex could still be rape rules a UK high court-unbelievable

[Me Myself]

MM has a persistent habit of completely disregarding all the biological and psychological risks and impacts of pregnancy and childbirth.

You were the one who tried to make it into a competition while completely disregarding the context of what I said

I merely said a reality about the psychological damage and impact than such deciet and sexual "assault" or or trickery or however we may call it can impact a poor man.

It wasnt an argument against abortion, it was a statement of how it wrongs the guy in that scenario. There is a big difference.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I wouldnt say equal blame, and legally speaking, she has no responsibility and should have all the law on her side.

Like, if I go to the ugly part pf my city covered in gold and diamonds and bling blings, law should be totally on my side if I get robbed.

if I leave the door of my house open, the law should be totally on my side if anyone steals from me.

if I let a stranger come into my house while I show him and let him hold my gun, law should be totally in my side if he puts bullets on my robs me and rapes my family.

Non legally speaking though, I obviously decided to partake on the risks of each scenario.

That's the point of the law, however, is to attribute who is responsible or culpable for actions or damages incurred.

Why is the non-legal meta-analysis always presented as an important talking point when we wish to discuss how women somehow are so stupid to put themselves in situations of sexual assault? Can anybody show me a news item where a man was mugged at gunpoint in the middle of a ghetto and all anybody wants to talk about was how much responsibility the victim should shoulder? He much of a total idiot that guy was? And how burglars are just going to be burglars and everybody should just know better not to be anywhere near a burglar?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

This victim-blaming continues to be truly despressing.

To be fair, the line between blame/fault and personal responsibility can often be grey and muddy.

 

[Sunstone]

To be fair, the line between blame/fault and personal responsibility can often be grey and muddy.

Is there really a line between the two -- or do they overlap without one excusing the other?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Is there really a line between the two -- or do they overlap without one excusing the other?

I suppose that's what I meant by grey and muddy.

 

[Me Myself]

If what he did was wrong, he is culpable for his actions. She does not bear responsibility for his actions. She also does not bear responsibility for being a victim of his actions.

If you go out for drinks with someone you DON'T know is carrying roofies and DON'T know is a dick, and then trust that guy to respect your boundaries and doesn't....are you responsible when he surprises you when he assaults you?

This victim-blaming continues to be truly despressing.

If I go to the bad part of my city full of bling blings and I get robbed:

A)Am I partly responsible?

B)Should the law be on my side?

My answers are a) yes and b)yes in thise questions.

Like, if a mother goes somewhere leaving her baby alone in the car for 5 mins. Wouldnt she be partly to blame if someone kidnaps her baby?

 

[Sunstone]

I suppose that's what I meant by grey and muddy.

Fair enough. I was just auditioning for ghostwriting your memoirs by showing you how precisely I could phrase your very own thoughts.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

To be fair, the line between blame/fault and personal responsibility can often be grey and muddy.

In this case, no.

Penetration was consensual.

The woman repeatedly said absolutely no internal ejaculation.

The man not only ignored her communicated boundary, but aggressively forced himself beyond what she consented to.

She bears no responsibility to his aggression. She communicated a clear cut NO. He did not honor it. What I'm reading from those who are putting responsibility on her is that she was an idiot, should have known better, and shouldn't have even had sex with a jerk like that.

It is parallel to the same victim-blaming declarations that point to what a woman is wearing, how she was acting, if she didn't scream loud enough, if she was walking alone at night, if she did this or didn't do that.....and all the while, the fact remains that there was a clear case of assault against a woman who according to many pieces of advice communicated her boundaries repeatedly to her partner.....jerk he might be or not....and those boundaries were not honored.

Shall we ask her what her sexual history is just as the icing on the cake?

 

[Sunstone]

If I go to the bad part of my city full of bling blings and I get robbed:

A)Am I partly responsible?

B)Should the law be on my side?

My answers are a) yes and b)yes in thise questions.

Like, if a mother goes somewhere leaving her baby alone in the car for 5 mins. Wouldnt she be partly to blame if someone kidnaps her baby?

If a man walks down a dark alley and is robbed he may be foolish and irresponsible, but he is not to blame for being robbed since no one should rob another. If a woman walks down a dark alley and is raped she may be foolish and irresponsible but she is not to blame for being raped since no one should rape another. To say either the man or the woman is partly responsible for the crimes committed against them amounts to saying their robber or rapist is not fully responsible for their crimes.

 

[Me Myself]

That's the point of the law, however, is to attribute who is responsible or culpable for actions or damages incurred.

Why is the non-legal meta-analysis always presented as an important talking point when we wish to discuss how women somehow are so stupid to put themselves in situations of sexual assault? Can anybody show me a news item where a man was mugged at gunpoint in the middle of a ghetto and all anybody wants to talk about was how much responsibility the victim should shoulder? He much of a total idiot that guy was? And how burglars are just going to be burglars and everybody should just know better not to be anywhere near a burglar?

I never said the woman was a complete idiot, I dont know how she met the guy.

I am merely saying it is possible she has part of the responsability depending on the circumstances by which she met the guy.

And mosty mothers anywhere will tell you how much of an idiot her son/daughter was to walk on x neighbourhood when it could be avoided after s/he got robbed.

Or well, at least mine and most i know.

I myself would definetely blame myself for a baby if I was stupid enough to not wear a condom when ñi had sex with a stranger if she tangled her legs on me and didnt let me pull out.

Like seriously, may God be with me so I never become so stupid, and blood aint .THAT away from my brain

Uprotected sex with a stranger is just not smart. Its as the example of leaving your car open and then people robbing you whats inside.


Yes, the robbers are the ones who must be prosecuted, but seriously, WHY DID YOU LET THE CAR DOOR OPEN?!
W

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Fair enough. I was just auditioning for ghostwriting your memoirs by showing you how precisely I could phrase your very own thoughts.

You've moved to the top of the list when I'm ready to grace the world with the story of my life and a compendium of my brilliant philosophies and insights.

Keep your schedule open.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

In this case, no.

I was making a general statement.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If I go to the bad part of my city full of bling blings and I get robbed:

A)Am I partly responsible?

B)Should the law be on my side?

My answers are a) yes and b)yes in thise questions.

Like, if a mother goes somewhere leaving her baby alone in the car for 5 mins. Wouldnt she be partly to blame if someone kidnaps her baby?

Would law enforcement require you to be responsible for your own damages? And would a judge and jury suggest you should take classes to be better informed about what part of the city you should or shouldn't go to with whatever possessions you take with you?

And your suggestion about the mother leaving her baby alone in the car for 5 minutes is a poor example. How about if a mother brings her child into a store with her, turns to get a bottle of juice off a shelf, turns back to see her child has gone. A kidnapper has successfully taken her child from under her nose.

She's not responsible.

Gosh, I'd love to see the harsh judgement come down on a dude having sex with a woman while using condoms, then right in front of the guy she removes the condom and empties the semen into her vagina without his consent. What an idiot! He should have known better! Yeah she's a *****, but he is totally and equally to blame for putting himself in that situation!

 

[Me Myself]

If a man walks down a dark alley and is robbed he may be foolish and irresponsible, but he is not to blame for being robbed since no one should rob another. If a woman walks down a dark alley and is raped she may be foolish and irresponsible but she is not to blame for being raped since no one should rape another. To say either the man or the woman is partly responsible for the crimes committed against them amounts to saying their robber or rapist is not fully responsible for their crimes.

You said it yourself: he is foolish and irresponsible.

Yes, he shouldnt be robbed, but that doesnt mean he should pretend everyone does what they should and reality is beautiful and perfect.

I disagree about your last sentence. If I let a murderer escape after he told me he will murder someone and I dont inform e police about it, the murderer is fully resnsible for his murders, yet I am still responsible for them too because I let him escape.

 

[Sunstone]

You said it yourself: he is foolish and irresponsible.

Yes, but you and I seem to mean different things by "foolish and irresponsible". I certainly don't mean he or she is morally to blame because they are foolish and irresponsible. But you seem to mean that.

Yes, he shouldnt be robbed, but that doesnt mean he should pretend everyone does what they should and reality is beautiful and perfect.

Straw man. A person might walk down a dark alley for all sorts of reasons having nothing to do with their thinking the world is perfect.

I disagree about your last sentence. If I let a murderer escape after he told me he will murder someone and I dont inform e police about it, the murderer is fully resnsible for his murders, yet I am still responsible for them too because I let him escape.

That's not a good analogy. And even if it were a good analogy, it would be flawed in that you fail to distinguish responsibility from moral guilt.

 

[Me Myself]

Would law enforcement require you to be responsible for your own damages? And would a judge and jury suggest you should take classes to be better informed about what part of the city you should or shouldn't go to with whatever possessions you take with you?

And your suggestion about the mother leaving her baby alone in the car for 5 minutes is a poor example. How about if a mother brings her child into a store with her, turns to get a bottle of juice off a shelf, turns back to see her child has gone. A kidnapper has successfully taken her child from under her nose.

She's not responsible.

Gosh, I'd love to see the harsh judgement come down on a dude having sex with a woman while using condoms, then right in front of the guy she removes the condom and empties the semen into her vagina without his consent. What an idiot! He should have known better! Yeah she's a *****, but he is totally and equally to blame for putting himself in that situation!

Her fault was mostly because she expected the perfect stranger to be a master of non unexpected ejaculation. The fact that he had a deliberate evil intent was not necessary.

If she had forced him to use a condom and then after that he forced her stuffing the condom inside her while laughing maniacally, The situation would be different, but wven then and in the case you put too of the stranger being a complete and most deliberate a hole, there is still a degree of risk you put yourself into when having sex with strangers.

Its just that in your example and this last one of mine, the risk was ridiculously small, when in the case of the man simply ejaculating without warning (even to himself) is extremelymore likely than either the woman or the man laughiing manically while they deliberately put the semen on the vagina against one of the participants wishes.

Edit: ill correct myself: in the case she did it withh a stranger, the article doesnt say that and i am only arguing the pooint becaude you are implying there is no circumstance iwhich she would be partly responsible.

 

[Wirey]

Out of the thousands of sexual experiences I've had to this point, not one time have I ever ejaculated into a vagina.

I completely recommend it. Much better than gopher holes, with far less gnawing.

 

[Me Myself]

Yes, but you and I seem to mean different things by "foolish and irresponsible". I certainly don't mean he or she is morally to blame because they are foolish and irresponsible. But you seem to mean that.



Straw man. A person might walk down a dark alley for all sorts of reasons having nothing to do with their thinking the world is perfect.

Agreed, not in all cases it would be partially responsible. If he could have avoided it and chose not to while knewing he was in a place of high risk then he is being irresponsible with himself. I wouldnt say this is a moral scenario cause it is just irresponsible with himself, not with others. Now if he had a kid and walked on a dangerous alley being able to avoid it THEN I would say he is acting immorally.

On the case of the woman ( and assuming the senario that she had sex with a stranger), I wouldnt say immorally, she was only puting herself at risk. Just, well, foolishly.

Why trusting on a stranger being both willing and succesful on pulling out? She decided to trust on that, even though even an honest failure would have endangered her.

 

[Sunstone]

I completely recommend it. Much better than gopher holes, with far less gnawing.

I speak from experience when I say Wirey knows what he's talking about here, Dust1n. Learn from him so that you may not repeat the mistakes of your elders!

 

[Wirey]

I speak from experience when I say Wirey knows what he's talking about here, Dust1n. Learn from him so that you may not repeat the mistakes of your elders!

That damn gopher never calls.