psychedelicsoul
Active Member
I was just shocked... normally people with a more liberal interpretation of the bible such as yourself generally don't hold such a hardline stance against suicide.
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Consequences of suicide
- Thread starter David1967
- Start date
I was just shocked... normally people with a more liberal interpretation of the bible such as yourself generally don't hold such a hardline stance against suicide.
The OP asked what our religion teaches about it and I answered with what my religion teaches.
psychedelicsoul
Active Member
I know... I just found it surprising
I'm not really liberal, either. I just don't care what sex people prefer to screw.
psychedelicsoul
Active Member
i meant liberal as in not holding a traditional fundamentalist view of the scriptures
Even with fundamentalist Catholicism, it's not the same as fundamentalist Protestantism. A fundie Catholic still isn't going to be a Biblical literalist.
psychedelicsoul
Active Member
Yea, but do you believe in all that the papacy and catholic doctrine preaches? Is the pope really the voice of God in Catholicism?
The Pope is the leader of the Church on earth. He is not the "voice of God". God can speak for Himself. We believe that God ultimately guides the Church and keeps it from falling into error (heresy/apostasy), but that doesn't mean that the clergy necessarily have a better connection to God than anyone else does or can. We've had horrible Popes, including Popes who were murderers, rapists, insane and gangsters.
psychedelicsoul
Active Member
I'm sure that's all part of the good job God is doing guiding the church
It just means that humans are a mess. None of them said anything that was to be taken as everlasting dogma, anyway. That's only happened twice, in the 19th century.
I know that is a popular notion among some Christian denominations, but can you give me any verses of scripture that specifically say that you go to hell for suicide?
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks..
So - I will share somethng here very personal - some of you will outright dibelieve it - some of you,it may make you rethink your view on suicide and the afterlife...Some of the church going christians,wil just call me an outright liar - but I swear every word I ever post is truth as I see it,or experience it directly...
So - my nephew and I - shared many many similar direct spiritual experiences....At first,we kept them to ourselves - he never mentioned his,I never mentioned mine - but it turned out,we had both been experiencing near identical phenomena - I can only call it Angelic - and eventually this led,I will just tell you plainly,I "met" Christ,face to face as it were...Thats not really my point here though - suicide - is not always a bad thing - and certainly,our ideas of "karma",a system of punishment o reward in a future life - is very VERY wrong - and above all else,I hop emy narratiuve here wil show that clearly...suicides do not go to hell (it doesnt even exist) - and nor do they hav to be punished or re do their lives over or any other negative thing at all...I know all this from direct experience..
So anyway - the nitty gritty - all truth i swear upon my honour and my Soul...We met Angels - different repeated experiences - mine still happen even to this day - when we began to tell each other of them,it really was quite shocking...And this,following my Mother - who for sure,could literally dream the future, and we saw this validated time and time again as we both grew up...And her explanation..?...She said when she slept,literally,Angels came and showed her "important events"......Now see then,I grew up already having a "proof" as I saw indeed,her dreams come about exactly and precisely as she said they would - time after time...So when I my Self encountered Angels (at first very terrifying) - I had no real choice but to believe...And similary,future events of my own life,likewise shown in clear and accurate detail - a proof again..And then when my nephew - Steve - also started telling me of his own direct encounters - with similar proofs shown to him also - well - I take it all as absolutely guaranteed certainty - I - he - my mother - ALL met Divine Beings directly....Make of that what you will - but again - this is not my point here - just necassary background information...
So - for years and years,Steve and I shared our experiences intimately...Notice here - I speak of him past tense - and that is becasue indeed,eventually - seven years ago now - he took his own life directly because of these spiritual experiences and the proofs they bought...He cam ot know himself,and hios circumstances,so exceedingly well - became so convinced of his eternal truth - that he took ho sown life,inorder to literally TRANSCEND these lower realms - to take th next stepp to "becoming Christ" - which I tell you clearly,is what reincarnation,is truly about....
His very first encounter - was a legitimate Near Death Experience....I term it that wasy - legitimate - becasue I mean precisely,he ACTUALLY died - with paramedics present who revive him with heart shocks...Now bizarrely - he doesnt go to thospital - is pretty freaked out actually - and runs straight home to my house - doesnt even mention this event - a fight,his literal death,paramedics revive him - mentions NOTHING about it....I first see him as he approaches my gate - he is obviously talking to someone - waving his arms about,agitated...I learned first of the fight thenext day,from friends who witnesed the whole thing..They nor I could unerstand why he fled the scene,didnt go to hosapital - it troubled me fo ryears but he would never talk about it,became angry if questioned,so over time I simply forgot it...
But then - one day - we are painting in hi shouse - all of a sudden,he throws the brush down and says "that F ing ba***rd - he KILLED ME !! " - - needless to say,I was quite shocke dby this outburst - and Steve finally told me about the night he died - for real died - and how he met Angels - not in heaven - but in a void empty barren place....Now,as he recountd this to me,I had already had a very similar thing happen - about a year or to before,and it was still and stil is,amazingly fresh,like it just happened today...I wasmesmerised by his story of ocurse - fo rit tied in with everythng I had expereinced directly - we began to open up to each other,to explore and learn...For him - it was all kindo fspontaneous - kundalini aakening,uncontrolled at first...For me,I learned how and why it was happening -applied thta wisom,and made it happen fo rmyt Self,in a far more conmtrolled approach....As I say above - we encounter the Divine,many many times - but I know there are certain things said and done,that were never shared fully - Steve told me directly,years before he took his life - that f he toldme everythng,it owuld alte my own path fo rthe worse,and os refused to tell me certainthings shown to him....
One of those things,was for sure,his own death - suicide...I swear all this is true..Christmas eve,some years back - he comes to my home to visit...Was supposed ot be a proper social visit - we both smoke weed - bit of a session,catch up - usualy this meant diecting and exploring our experiences,comparing...Except he comes in - and man,he is like a little kid - big big cheesy grin on his face,beaming...He say to me,that on the walk down to my house,he had just met a man - only he knew thi sman previously as an Angel inone of his experiences...And this man/Angel,here in real life,said to him "something" - an exact repeat of a spiritual conversation - Steve said it was word for word - like a pre arranged message - and the meaning of that essage became very very clear indeed....Whatever this Angel had said in spirit - this man had repeated word for word,same context and meaning - and Steve was absolutely exstatic about it...His exact wods were - "FINALLY - I cant believe it - after all this time"....
Of course,I wanted him to spill the beans there and then,tell me everything - but he said he had things to do,needed to go home,and promised to tell me details soon....At first I thought he had cheated me - because see,he went home - wrote a goodbye note - then walked like 8 miles in the freezing cold snow on the gorund Christmas eve - up to a wooded area we used to play in as kids...He found our old tree house we had built - climbed up,and hung himsef miles form anywhere so none could possibly stop him..
That encounter with the Angel /man - it was for sure,like a signal to him - final orders - mission complete,come Home..The way he expressed it in my house - finally,after all this time its happened - was definately osmehtng pre arranged - something he had been waiting for - and it led directly to his suicide.....I can only deduce fromthat then - that indeed,he was fully allowed,suicide condoned - signal given to call hi m home finally - that can only mean mortal death - and yet this was as I say,something PRE ARRANGED.....
I know that fo rsure - because it all adds up here inthe mundane world - he gave me all his car tools,spares,thngs like that...He didnt have a car himself at the time,true,but he said explicitly,he would never need them again..>Similar,he did every tiny little chore inthe ohouse - made sure everything was u to daye,sorted...He bought rope specially like 2 months before,but left it coiled inthe garage untouched til that night..Another hting -I had a seies of premonition dreams - a definate suicide - Imnetion them to Steve of course...Usually,this was to be disected,explored,understood - but for some reason,he didnt want to discuss my dreams - a week or so later,I ofund out whay...I even said to him "I thnk its a suicide someone close - damn,I hop e I figur eit out before it happens" - he replied "perhaps its already to late" - and that was all he would say - not usual at all...
besides themundane proofs - since his passing here,I have had still Angec contact - and have even communed with Steve directly...I knwo for sure,he is nt "burning in hell" - I know fo rsure,he i snot reliving 2past mistakes" or punishment for "bad karma"..lol...I laugh - because if you only knew the truth of karma,you would understand our naivete there....No punishemnt - no reward - Self created Beng
Thats what its all about - coming to know thy Self - understand the Self...Steve got to such a Self understanding,where it became necassary to progress further,he must forego the lower cycles of reincaration completely...Literally,he sprung the trap,and escaped...In life,here and now,he was so Self aware,so assured of His nature,and his pending ascention,that it filled his every waking minute...He took his life,after receivng direct Angelic communication -a prearranged signal to tell him it was ok - so clearly suicide itself is defiantely not any form of spiritual taboo - there is no punishment or re doing past mistakes - I encounter Angels as I say,and they showed me personal proof - I encoutnered Christ who explained literally everythgn I ever needed to know - and likewise I encountered Steve again,after his death,through the same process - not hell or anyhting like - but a place I can only call Paradise actually -they tell me all the same -we are trapped here in this cycle death,birth death - until we learn Who and What We truly Are - reincarnation is a state of mind,literally so,for MInd causes ALL CREATION... If you thnk then suicide is bad,then kill yourself,all you will do is CREATE FO RYOURSELF,a "hell realm"...If though,as Steve did - you come to know you ARE an ETERNAL SOUL - and taht you are beyond any such mortal limitation,and alwayes were so - well,then - free themind formthe body,and Pardise is yours - FREE WILL is you inherant birthright - to know your Self,and express your Self,AS the Divine,for that is what you always were - so who now - is going to punish you,or damn you to this hell..?..Only your own Self - for you ARE a Self CREATED Being..Realsie this fully and we literally transcend this lowe,reincarnation realm...
So - I will share somethng here very personal - some of you will outright dibelieve it - some of you,it may make you rethink your view on suicide and the afterlife...Some of the church going christians,wil just call me an outright liar - but I swear every word I ever post is truth as I see it,or experience it directly...
So - my nephew and I - shared many many similar direct spiritual experiences....At first,we kept them to ourselves - he never mentioned his,I never mentioned mine - but it turned out,we had both been experiencing near identical phenomena - I can only call it Angelic - and eventually this led,I will just tell you plainly,I "met" Christ,face to face as it were...Thats not really my point here though - suicide - is not always a bad thing - and certainly,our ideas of "karma",a system of punishment o reward in a future life - is very VERY wrong - and above all else,I hop emy narratiuve here wil show that clearly...suicides do not go to hell (it doesnt even exist) - and nor do they hav to be punished or re do their lives over or any other negative thing at all...I know all this from direct experience..
So anyway - the nitty gritty - all truth i swear upon my honour and my Soul...We met Angels - different repeated experiences - mine still happen even to this day - when we began to tell each other of them,it really was quite shocking...And this,following my Mother - who for sure,could literally dream the future, and we saw this validated time and time again as we both grew up...And her explanation..?...She said when she slept,literally,Angels came and showed her "important events"......Now see then,I grew up already having a "proof" as I saw indeed,her dreams come about exactly and precisely as she said they would - time after time...So when I my Self encountered Angels (at first very terrifying) - I had no real choice but to believe...And similary,future events of my own life,likewise shown in clear and accurate detail - a proof again..And then when my nephew - Steve - also started telling me of his own direct encounters - with similar proofs shown to him also - well - I take it all as absolutely guaranteed certainty - I - he - my mother - ALL met Divine Beings directly....Make of that what you will - but again - this is not my point here - just necassary background information...
So - for years and years,Steve and I shared our experiences intimately...Notice here - I speak of him past tense - and that is becasue indeed,eventually - seven years ago now - he took his own life directly because of these spiritual experiences and the proofs they bought...He cam ot know himself,and hios circumstances,so exceedingly well - became so convinced of his eternal truth - that he took ho sown life,inorder to literally TRANSCEND these lower realms - to take th next stepp to "becoming Christ" - which I tell you clearly,is what reincarnation,is truly about....
His very first encounter - was a legitimate Near Death Experience....I term it that wasy - legitimate - becasue I mean precisely,he ACTUALLY died - with paramedics present who revive him with heart shocks...Now bizarrely - he doesnt go to thospital - is pretty freaked out actually - and runs straight home to my house - doesnt even mention this event - a fight,his literal death,paramedics revive him - mentions NOTHING about it....I first see him as he approaches my gate - he is obviously talking to someone - waving his arms about,agitated...I learned first of the fight thenext day,from friends who witnesed the whole thing..They nor I could unerstand why he fled the scene,didnt go to hosapital - it troubled me fo ryears but he would never talk about it,became angry if questioned,so over time I simply forgot it...
But then - one day - we are painting in hi shouse - all of a sudden,he throws the brush down and says "that F ing ba***rd - he KILLED ME !! " - - needless to say,I was quite shocke dby this outburst - and Steve finally told me about the night he died - for real died - and how he met Angels - not in heaven - but in a void empty barren place....Now,as he recountd this to me,I had already had a very similar thing happen - about a year or to before,and it was still and stil is,amazingly fresh,like it just happened today...I wasmesmerised by his story of ocurse - fo rit tied in with everythng I had expereinced directly - we began to open up to each other,to explore and learn...For him - it was all kindo fspontaneous - kundalini aakening,uncontrolled at first...For me,I learned how and why it was happening -applied thta wisom,and made it happen fo rmyt Self,in a far more conmtrolled approach....As I say above - we encounter the Divine,many many times - but I know there are certain things said and done,that were never shared fully - Steve told me directly,years before he took his life - that f he toldme everythng,it owuld alte my own path fo rthe worse,and os refused to tell me certainthings shown to him....
One of those things,was for sure,his own death - suicide...I swear all this is true..Christmas eve,some years back - he comes to my home to visit...Was supposed ot be a proper social visit - we both smoke weed - bit of a session,catch up - usualy this meant diecting and exploring our experiences,comparing...Except he comes in - and man,he is like a little kid - big big cheesy grin on his face,beaming...He say to me,that on the walk down to my house,he had just met a man - only he knew thi sman previously as an Angel inone of his experiences...And this man/Angel,here in real life,said to him "something" - an exact repeat of a spiritual conversation - Steve said it was word for word - like a pre arranged message - and the meaning of that essage became very very clear indeed....Whatever this Angel had said in spirit - this man had repeated word for word,same context and meaning - and Steve was absolutely exstatic about it...His exact wods were - "FINALLY - I cant believe it - after all this time"....
Of course,I wanted him to spill the beans there and then,tell me everything - but he said he had things to do,needed to go home,and promised to tell me details soon....At first I thought he had cheated me - because see,he went home - wrote a goodbye note - then walked like 8 miles in the freezing cold snow on the gorund Christmas eve - up to a wooded area we used to play in as kids...He found our old tree house we had built - climbed up,and hung himsef miles form anywhere so none could possibly stop him..
That encounter with the Angel /man - it was for sure,like a signal to him - final orders - mission complete,come Home..The way he expressed it in my house - finally,after all this time its happened - was definately osmehtng pre arranged - something he had been waiting for - and it led directly to his suicide.....I can only deduce fromthat then - that indeed,he was fully allowed,suicide condoned - signal given to call hi m home finally - that can only mean mortal death - and yet this was as I say,something PRE ARRANGED.....
I know that fo rsure - because it all adds up here inthe mundane world - he gave me all his car tools,spares,thngs like that...He didnt have a car himself at the time,true,but he said explicitly,he would never need them again..>Similar,he did every tiny little chore inthe ohouse - made sure everything was u to daye,sorted...He bought rope specially like 2 months before,but left it coiled inthe garage untouched til that night..Another hting -I had a seies of premonition dreams - a definate suicide - Imnetion them to Steve of course...Usually,this was to be disected,explored,understood - but for some reason,he didnt want to discuss my dreams - a week or so later,I ofund out whay...I even said to him "I thnk its a suicide someone close - damn,I hop e I figur eit out before it happens" - he replied "perhaps its already to late" - and that was all he would say - not usual at all...
besides themundane proofs - since his passing here,I have had still Angec contact - and have even communed with Steve directly...I knwo for sure,he is nt "burning in hell" - I know fo rsure,he i snot reliving 2past mistakes" or punishment for "bad karma"..lol...I laugh - because if you only knew the truth of karma,you would understand our naivete there....No punishemnt - no reward - Self created Beng
Thats what its all about - coming to know thy Self - understand the Self...Steve got to such a Self understanding,where it became necassary to progress further,he must forego the lower cycles of reincaration completely...Literally,he sprung the trap,and escaped...In life,here and now,he was so Self aware,so assured of His nature,and his pending ascention,that it filled his every waking minute...He took his life,after receivng direct Angelic communication -a prearranged signal to tell him it was ok - so clearly suicide itself is defiantely not any form of spiritual taboo - there is no punishment or re doing past mistakes - I encounter Angels as I say,and they showed me personal proof - I encoutnered Christ who explained literally everythgn I ever needed to know - and likewise I encountered Steve again,after his death,through the same process - not hell or anyhting like - but a place I can only call Paradise actually -they tell me all the same -we are trapped here in this cycle death,birth death - until we learn Who and What We truly Are - reincarnation is a state of mind,literally so,for MInd causes ALL CREATION... If you thnk then suicide is bad,then kill yourself,all you will do is CREATE FO RYOURSELF,a "hell realm"...If though,as Steve did - you come to know you ARE an ETERNAL SOUL - and taht you are beyond any such mortal limitation,and alwayes were so - well,then - free themind formthe body,and Pardise is yours - FREE WILL is you inherant birthright - to know your Self,and express your Self,AS the Divine,for that is what you always were - so who now - is going to punish you,or damn you to this hell..?..Only your own Self - for you ARE a Self CREATED Being..Realsie this fully and we literally transcend this lowe,reincarnation realm...
Not sure about the consequence in Islam, but as a law, it is strictly forbidden to kill oneself. Those who kill themselves, I believe, are left for God to decide and that there is no text we can use to think of any judgement for them. The Quran (4:29) strictly and clearly says "do not kill yourselves".
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
I used to be Christian and the Bible doesn't discuss it.
Good words to live by.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Many pagans pagans (say some Wiccans) value life. As how I see it, we are a part of nature. So intentional suicide defeats the body's purpose of growth, age, and natural death.
Many Buddhist believe once you die, if you still have negative karma, we go through rebirth. In my opinion, Id think suicide in itself is against life. Hence, the one who succeeds goes through rebirth. Nichiren explained it as going throuh the Ten Worlds. He (as Shakyamuni) says that we would suffer in the Aviche hell. As for literal translation. Buddhism is about the mind. So, Id say the mind would be in torment because of that misdeed.
I think also the frame of mind a person is in when they commit this act is very relevant. Mental illness of one kind or another would play a huge factor.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
True. I dont know about paganism view when someone is ill. Id say, from experience, its not like intentional suicide. As for the consequence in buddhism if someone is going through depression, I dont know. Its still bad karma. I dont know if thr Buddha says there is an exception to the "rule" like it is understood in abrahamic faith. Good question to ask a native Buddhist, if interested.
Yes, special cases are also considered in the Islamic view, in actually in everything, not just suicide. If someone, for example, with mental problems that messes their judgement and logic, killed themselves, they are most likely going to be forgiven for it depending on how they were aware of their surroundings at the time they commit the suicide. The presence of mind in Islam is one major important factor.
Do you think that guys with mental illnesses have an objective advantage when it comes to their eternal destiny?
Ciao
- viole