Conservative Christians should reexamine their views on homosexuality.

[waitasec]

I ment, what is the treatment of slaves have to do with our times? The Catholic Churchs teachings say racism and slavery is a grave sin

Hmmm yeah was this the same position Catholics took when they enslaved my ancestors? Or when they silently supported Hitler during the holocaust? Or is this a modern point of view?

Whereas the bible condoned it. The bible even gave instructions on how to sell ones own daughter into sexual slavery.

it seems you have quite a conundrum to solve....
unless of course you adhere to a doctrine that says god isn't a constant...

 

[JacobEzra.]

Hmmm yeah was this the same position Catholics took when they enslaved my ancestors? Or when they silently supported Hitler during the holocaust? Or is this a modern point of view?

Hitler was not supported and the Catholic Church does not hide its wrongs. She has apologized

 

[JacobEzra.]

Whereas the bible condoned it. The bible even gave instructions on how to sell ones own daughter into sexual slavery.

With the context of the ancient day. Society has grown and departed from the times when everybody owned slaves.

And the slave owners of America was breaking the laws of slavery.

 

[waitasec]

Hitler was not supported and the Catholic Church does not hide its wrongs. She has apologized

i find it rather odd that it took so long for the catholic church to apologize...and have yet to excommunicate those involved or maybe they have but wouldn't even hesitate to excommunicate clergy that marries a protestant

 

[waitasec]

With the context of the ancient day. Society has grown and departed from the times when everybody owned slaves.

funny how god never had a direct hand in this...but had a direct hand in condoning the treatment of slaves...

And the slave owners of America was breaking the laws of slavery.

yeah, they didn't free the jewish slaves every 6 yrs or so...

 

[fallingblood]

With the context of the ancient day. Society has grown and departed from the times when everybody owned slaves.

And the slave owners of America was breaking the laws of slavery.

That is really a moot point though. The NT, in places, supports the use of slaves. Now, if you want to take the NT as authoritative, you must accept that it is okay to have slaves. If you don't, then you admit that the NT is not the final word, and that changes can be made. Thus, there would be no reason to condone homosexuality, to see it as just fine. Especially when the NT never forbids it in the first place.

All you're doing is picking and choosing, and that simply does not work.

 

[Father Heathen]

With the context of the ancient day.

Should not the righteousness of god supersede human cultural norms? Why would something be in the bible if it's not the will of god?

Don't you think it's a little too convenient to dismiss the condoning of slavery, killing over eating shrimp and mixing fabrics and other unjust absurdies as "the culture of that time", but make exceptions for homosexuality? Do you honestly think god would abide such blatant hypocrisy and cherry picking?

 

[waitasec]

Do you honestly think god would abide such blatant hypocrisy and cherry picking?

hmmm, a predicament for those of blind faith seem to find themselves in...

opcorn:

 

[JacobEzra.]

Should not the righteousness of god supersede human cultural norms? Why would something be in the bible if it's not the will of god?

Don't you think it's a little too convenient to dismiss the condoning of slavery, killing over eating shrimp and mixing fabrics and other unjust absurdies as "the culture of that time", but make exceptions for homosexuality? Do you honestly think god would abide such blatant hypocrisy and cherry picking?

The slavery laws in Torah are not so bad. No getting beaten for no reason and being taken care of, then freed after a bit of time.

Better treatment then youd find any other people gave

 

[waitasec]

The slavery laws in Torah are not so bad. No getting beaten for no reason and being taken care of, then freed after a bit of time.

Better treatment then youd find any other people gave

that is a lie. the jews were freed. non jews were stuck for the rest of their lives... one wonders how you define dishonesty....

 

[fallingblood]

The slavery laws in Torah are not so bad. No getting beaten for no reason and being taken care of, then freed after a bit of time.

Better treatment then youd find any other people gave

You need to go back and read what the Torah actually says.

 

[Father Heathen]

The slavery laws in Torah are not so bad. No getting beaten for no reason and being taken care of, then freed after a bit of time.

Better treatment then youd find any other people gave

So what amounts to the sexual slavery of children (Exodus 21:7-11) is "not so bad"?
Oh, and of course rape (Deuteronomy 21:10-11) and beating slaves as punishment for being raped ( Leviticus 19:20).

The Bible/Torah is irredeemable filth, with no use beyond toilet paper. Sorry.

 

[crocusj]

Hitler was not supported and the Catholic Church does not hide its wrongs. She has apologized

Will it sometime down the line apologise for its views on homosexuality? Most people? have some sort of prejudice or other, we like to think that we are above it but sometimes we just don't like something for no other reason than we just don't. If homosexuality were not mentioned in the bible what then your take on it? Think outside your religious box for a minute and examine if your prejudices are fed by it rather than you observing its scripture, particularly since some irritatingly! expert readers of scripture on here have pointed out your errors. Don't be afraid, I am prejudiced too. I have gay friends, my oldest friend whom I have known since we were two years old is gay , I have shared communal showers with gay men, I judge them only as men not gay men. However, when we talk about the sexual act, I am prejudiced - I see them as deviants. They do not see me as a deviant, they merely see me as another. But I understand that I am looking at their sexual acts through heterosexual eyes and I understand that the problem is mine (if problem it is, god forbid that all my epitaph reads is "heterosexual"). I do not want to be judged by men or your god on my sexual orientation (why the ****** should I be? (particularly by a god who made you the way you are)) do you? I assume from what you post that you are heterosexual and therefore know nothing of how this might affect you otherwise. My homosexual friends say they are the same as me, I can't argue otherwise without sexual prejudice on my part. I try my hardest not to be that small and I find it odd that your god would be.

 

[Duck]

Jonathan is better versed in Christian history then your everyday evangelical. However, it's incomplete and has some holes. I suppose for the supporter of gay marriage, it's irrelavent that Dale B Martin pretty much disregards foundationalist interpretations of the bible. His hermeneutics is precise and hand picked. It's ironic coming from someone who asks his students to think for themselves. Essentially code word for stay away from anything traditional. His concerns are well placed, with his ultimate objection being that Bible interpretation can be..."ethically dangerous … because it masks the very real interpretive agency of the human interpreter and thus allows the interpreter to avoid responsibility for the … social effect of her or his interpretation" (pg. 16 Sex and the Single Savior: Gender and Sexuality in Biblical Interpretation)

Having said that, I can't recall a single sermon on the condenmnation of homosexuality. No doubt, the world knows where my church stands on this issue but it's pointless trying to tell others that it's really not the vast majority of Christians making noise; mostly right-wing evangelicals and LGBT (and it's supporters).

One probably doesn't need to have sermons condemning homosexuality when the head of your religion (aka the Pope) regularly calls homosexuals "intrinsically disordered", and views their secular, civilly recognized relationships as a greater threat than destruction of the environment.

 

[Tristesse]

I ment, what is the treatment of slaves have to do with our times? The Catholic Churchs teachings say racism and slavery is a grave sin

Yes, but by what right do they say it's a grave sin? Nowhere in the bible is slavery seen as a sin. If there just going to make stuff up, why not say that inequality is a grave sin?

 

[Tristesse]

With the context of the ancient day. Society has grown and departed from the times when everybody owned slaves.

And the slave owners of America was breaking the laws of slavery.

Well, by that reasoning, isn't their view on homosexuality also ancient and thus should be changed. Why is slavery given a free ride here?

 

[Tristesse]

The slavery laws in Torah are not so bad. No getting beaten for no reason and being taken care of, then freed after a bit of time.

Better treatment then youd find any other people gave

Oh that sounds like the life. You can only be beaten if you don't die within two days, and if you have kids, they are to be slaves for the rest of their lives. Where do I sign up?

 

[Storm]

OK, Let's Do This: Homosexuality

 

[Muffled]

The culture warriors are losing this battle, and in surprisingly rapid fashion. Public opinion polls now show that a majority of Americans support gay marriage, and the trend towards even greater support is surprisingly strong. And now that more and more states are allowing gay marriage, it becomes more normalized, more people know a gay person, and all the cries of the end of the world as we know it from the religious right are revealed as the bigoted garbage that they are.

I think the religious right has recognized this trend and is shifting to Muslims as the targets of their bigotry (see all the "anti-Sharia law" bills and laws). I listen to right-wing Christian talk radio fairly often, and there's no doubt that the drumbeat is shifting from "the evils of the gay agenda" to "all Muslims are terrorists and want to impose Sharia law". Fundamentalist Christians have always imposed their fears and bigotry on one group or another; it used to be the Jews, then the Catholics, then the blacks, then the gays, and now the Muslims.

If a majority of people oppose God it will be time for Him to judge the earth.

 

[Muffled]

Well, by that reasoning, isn't their view on homosexuality also ancient and thus should be changed. Why is slavery given a free ride here?

The truth is that God is the greatest slaveholder of all. He expects complete obedience.

God isn't likely to change his view on homosexuality simply because people have become ignorant. The genreal trend today is not toward God's righteousness but towards degradation.