• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Conservative radio host Jesse Kelly says America needs a dictator

Does America need a dictator?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • **** no!

    Votes: 28 82.4%
  • No need; we already have one

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Yes, but only if I get to name who is dictator (name your choice)

    Votes: 2 5.9%
  • Undecided/No opinion

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    34

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member

I remember Jesse Kelly when he ran for Congress in my district and was defeated twice.

Conservative radio host Jesse Kelly, who was a frequent guest on Tucker Carlson’s prime-time Fox News show before Carlson’s reported firing from the conservative network last month, this week tweeted that America “needs a dictator.”

“As the great John Adams said, a free country only works for ‘moral people,’” Kelly wrote on Twitter. “We are not worthy of freedom. A dictator is coming.”

In later posts, Kelly said he himself didn’t want to be a dictator and suggested authoritarian rulers “are awful” but that “one is coming and we deserve him.”

One commenter said, “Weimar problems eventually lead to Weimar solutions.”

Some of the challenges faced by Germany’s Weimar Republic following World War I assisted with brutal Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler’s rise to power.

“There it is,” replied Kelly, an Iraq War veteran with two failed runs for Congress under his belt, who is a fierce critic of President Joe Biden.

Another Twitter user suggested Kelly’s comments were “a warning” and not a literal advocation for a dictator.

They asked for clarification.

He responded: “I don’t give clarifications. What I said is right there for everyone to read. It’s quite plain and simple. The perpetually offended dork wing will take it how they take it. The ‘get it’ people will understand it. It needs no further clarification at all.”

"The perpetually offended dork wing"?

Anyway, this guy's a trip. Does America need a dictator? In another thread, there's a discussion about whether the Russians are "fit for liberty," although America is also being mentioned and the question is being asked if we are fit for liberty. After all, we are kind of a wild, chaotic, disobedient bunch when you really come down to it. Even just considering all the altercations which took place on airliners over mask mandates show how defiant we can truly be.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I have heard this argument both about where I live and about Saudi Arabia, among other countries. Usually, it comes from someone who is upset with the status quo or people of a certain nation and believes they don't deserve democracy or self-determination. An argument in a similar vein is that certain countries deserve to be colonized or run by colonizers from a "better" or "more enlightened" culture.

My response to these kinds of arguments is that dictators have never managed to improve the conditions that lead some people to conclude the need for a dictator in the first place. The US wouldn't become "more moral," however one defines that term, by having a dictator, nor would Saudi Arabia and Iran become less theocratic. Improvements in education, economy, and general quality of life tend to start from a democratic foundation. Do the majority sometimes vote to oppress their fellow citzens or continue harmful policies? Yes. This is why I believe in a constitutional or representative republic rather than a direct democracy, although I also don't think that a dictatorship would be a good or realistic solution to the very real problem of the tyranny of the majority.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Anyway, this guy's a trip. Does America need a dictator? In another thread, there's a discussion about whether the Russians are "fit for liberty," although America is also being mentioned and the question is being asked if we are fit for liberty.

As I clarified in the other thread, my comments are specifically intended to be about the subset of Americans who want theocratic laws, turn a blind eye to mass shootings, and disregard the rights and freedoms of their fellow citizens. The comments are definitely not about all or even most Americans, who I believe are quite different from the hard-line theocratic crowds.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
As I clarified in the other thread, my comments are specifically intended to be about the subset of Americans who want theocratic laws, turn a blind eye to mass shootings, and disregard the rights and freedoms of their fellow citizens. The comments are definitely not about all or even most Americans, who I believe are quite different from the hard-line theocratic crowds.

I would include Jesse Kelly among the hard-line crowd. But even setting aside the politics, Americans are far too chaotic, defiant, and disobedient to ever make any kind of dictatorship really work.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I would include Jesse Kelly among the hard-line crowd. But even setting aside the politics, Americans are far too chaotic, defiant, and disobedient to ever make any kind of dictatorship really work.

I'm convinced that at our core, we humans are all quite similar. A lot of defiant people throughout history were forced to flee their home countries or stay low-key because of violent suppression. I can imagine very few things more defiant than refusing to back down on demands for freedom despite usage of live ammo and tanks, but that defiance still didn't prevent China's dictatorship from ending the Tiananmen protests. Even armed revolutionaries have been successfully suppressed at multiple points and in various places in the past. Throughout history, brute force has sadly worked effectively far too often to establish and maintain dictatorships regardless of defiant opposition or lack thereof.

I agree that a dictatorship wouldn't work in the US, but that's mainly because of two things. First, there's too much separation of powers and difficulty in changing the Constitution for a dictator to be able to consolidate power to the point where he would be able to use the required force to crack down on dissent. Even if he somehow got most of the Congress on his side, there would still be too much opposition within other branches of government for him to reach Stalin or Khomeini levels of power.

Second, by this point in its history, the US just seems to me too armed for a dictatorship to be sustainable, at least not without becoming a Pyrrhic victory for the dictator. The government's tanks, helicopters, and rifles would still outgun the vast majority of civilians' firearms, but I think there would still be a noticeable and heavy cost to the dictator and his state apparatuses—probably so heavy as to render such a brutal dictatorship either extremely unlikely or downright suicidal. All of that is assuming the military and police would even agree to work with him in the first place—which would probably be a huge long shot—instead of just overthrowing him or helping other branches of government to do so.

So I definitely don't think the US needs a dictator or will have one anytime soon, if ever, but that's not because of any specific traits like defiance, being chaotic, etc. It's because the required measures to suppress defiance, dissent, and human desires for freedom and prosperity just wouldn't be achievable.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Only for the other side.

The right wants a dictator

The Left wants a Supreme Chairman or Supreme Chairwoman.
I've only ever witnessed the right ingage in the creepy, blindly loyal, cult-like hero worship of political leaders.

And of course the gun crowd, who claim to be the last line of defense against tyranny, would be among those who would vote a dictator into power.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm convinced that at our core, we humans are all quite similar. A lot of defiant people throughout history were forced to flee their home countries or stay low-key because of violent suppression. I can imagine very few things more defiant than refusing to back down on demands for freedom despite usage of live ammo and tanks, but that defiance still didn't prevent China's dictatorship from ending the Tiananmen protests. Even armed revolutionaries have been successfully suppressed at multiple points and in various places in the past. Throughout history, brute force has sadly worked effectively far too often to establish and maintain dictatorships regardless of defiant opposition or lack thereof.

I agree that a dictatorship wouldn't work in the US, but that's mainly because of two things. First, there's too much separation of powers and difficulty in changing the Constitution for a dictator to be able to consolidate power to the point where he would be able to use the required force to crack down on dissent. Even if he somehow got most of the Congress on his side, there would still be too much opposition within other branches of government for him to reach Stalin or Khomeini levels of power.

Second, by this point in its history, the US just seems to me too armed for a dictatorship to be sustainable, at least not without becoming a Pyrrhic victory for the dictator. The government's tanks, helicopters, and rifles would still outgun the vast majority of civilians' firearms, but I think there would still be a noticeable and heavy cost to the dictator and his state apparatuses—probably so heavy as to render such a brutal dictatorship either extremely unlikely or downright suicidal. All of that is assuming the military and police would even agree to work with him in the first place—which would probably be a huge long shot—instead of just overthrowing him or helping other branches of government to do so.

So I definitely don't think the US needs a dictator or will have one anytime soon, if ever, but that's not because of any specific traits like defiance, being chaotic, etc. It's because the required measures to suppress the human desires for freedom and prosperity just wouldn't be achievable.

You make some good points, although even dictators have to work with a bureaucracy and a chain of command. While brute force is usually effective for keeping people in line, people are also quite clever in keeping up the appearance of obedience while still doing their own thing.

Also, some dictators can also be kind of clever in making it appear that the government is not a "dictatorship," at least not on paper. And if anything appears oppressive or horrible, then it's blamed on some lower level official who "went rogue." During the purges of the 1930s, it was referred to as the "Yezhovshchina," after Yezhov, the head of the NKVD at the time. Ultimately, Yezhov himself would be purged. The former head, Yagoda, was also purged. Through a Western lens, their show trials and official government were generally presented as more of a cynical farce, where the real power centered around Stalin and his role as General Secretary, which was a post chosen by the Politburo and Central Committee. Theoretically, he could have been removed at any time, by the Politburo, Central Committee, or even at a Party Congress, where his popularity may have been waning. They still had a constitution and a quasi-democratic structure - although it didn't really work to prevent a dictatorship.

It was somewhat similar in Germany, where Hitler became Chancellor and then was given dictatorial powers through the Enabling Act, which became official through the legal processes of the established government. It was supposed to only be a "temporary" emergency decree, but it lasted 12 years and left Germany and most of Europe in ruins. But they still ostensibly wanted to make it appear as "legitimate" as possible.

One thing that seemed normal to the Germans was to give an oath directly to Hitler as the supreme commander and "Fuhrer," whereas I don't think Americans could really give an oath to a single person, whether it's a "Fuhrer," "Tsar," "King/Queen." We've never really done that here in America. It's just not part of our political culture.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Sorry, I'm too busy relaxing to be your benevolent dictator and everyone else is unfit to be dictator. So you all must keep on being adults and getting the government you deserve according to the level of your participation in the political process. Have a nice day.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member

I remember Jesse Kelly when he ran for Congress in my district and was defeated twice.









"The perpetually offended dork wing"?

Anyway, this guy's a trip. Does America need a dictator? In another thread, there's a discussion about whether the Russians are "fit for liberty," although America is also being mentioned and the question is being asked if we are fit for liberty. After all, we are kind of a wild, chaotic, disobedient bunch when you really come down to it. Even just considering all the altercations which took place on airliners over mask mandates show how defiant we can truly be.
Did he say America needs a dictator? As in, it's his preference?
I don't see it.
But maybe there's more in his Tweets than I'm seeing
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Btw, I voted yes, but only if I get to be the dictator. I'd be totes benevolent. Benevolent-ish, at least.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Correct.

False, the left wants duly elected representatives who does the job they are hired for. That's why democrats work hard to expand voter access, and republicans want to limit voter access.
The Left wants one party rule.

One state, one voice.

 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I agree that a dictatorship wouldn't work in the US, but that's mainly because of two things. First, there's too much separation of powers and difficulty in changing the Constitution for a dictator to be able to consolidate power to the point where he would be able to use the required force to crack down on dissent. Even if he somehow got most of the Congress on his side, there would still be too much opposition within other branches of government for him to reach Stalin or Khomeini levels of power.
The past, I don't even know how many presidents and years now, but it's become apparent that without a very large amount of cooperation and stacked courts the Constitution can very easily lock the process and prevent anything from happening.
And the decentralized power is what saved us from Trump's worst impulses. The main worry though since Trump is Congress absolutely MUST make launching a nuke something that requires multiple people to authorize it usage. One person just should have that much power.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin

I remember Jesse Kelly when he ran for Congress in my district and was defeated twice.









"The perpetually offended dork wing"?

Anyway, this guy's a trip. Does America need a dictator? In another thread, there's a discussion about whether the Russians are "fit for liberty," although America is also being mentioned and the question is being asked if we are fit for liberty. After all, we are kind of a wild, chaotic, disobedient bunch when you really come down to it. Even just considering all the altercations which took place on airliners over mask mandates show how defiant we can truly be.
The "needs no clarification" thing is very, very sussy.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
As people become more frightened, they tend to crave the 'order' imposed by authorities to alleviate their fear. Not realizing that their fear is very likely the result of an abuse of authority. And so they end up craving the very poison that they are hoping to overcome.
 
Top