Man, I should know better than looking at threads in this side of the forum - there's NEVER agreement
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Not my problem you can't see the problems with something like "Given that their brains are so different, it is hardly surprising that liberals and conservatives should spend so much time talking across each other and never achieving real dialog or consensus." And really, it is the amount of exposure to differing groups that is a far greater prediction of inter-group dynamics and relations. It may be an experiment with fancy equipment, but this thing called the "real world" suggests otherwise and that people with different brains do have real dialogue and do accomplish things. And when you start saying that these conservatives (yet we still do not know if fiscal, social, European, or what type of Conservative exactly) are more fearful than Liberals, then you have really achieved nothing except demonizing your enemy, when in reality they shouldn't even be an enemy. And while we are at it, what sort of Liberals seemed to have less fear?Uhhh, not seeing any belittling in the article. Just facts. Not my problem you're blowing it completely out of proportion. You sound fearful when you shouldn't be.
Interesting findings. Seems these research studies continue proving themselves correct. I see this in the comments here and elsewhere.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds
:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clapThe amygdala isn't synonymous with 'fear bit of the brain'. Its involved in emotional memory, imprinting and conditioning, basically far more sophisticated than 'fear centre', and that's within the context of the limited knowledge we currently have of the brain's inner working.
Additionally anatomical size doesn't necessarily correlate with functionality. A larger amygdala doesn't automatically mean a more highly functioning one.
Also I'm wary of interpretations of study results, this is often the stage that bias and error comes in. If your looking for a certain result or a confirmation to an already held belief, likely you will find it.
Expressing or intending to promote a particular cause or point of view, esp. a controversial one: "a tendentious reading of history".
Interesting findings. Seems these research studies continue proving themselves correct. I see this in the comments here and elsewhere.
Where are you finding this information regarding the OP?These findings are completely meaningless for a number of reasons. I'll try to give a point-by-point non-technical summary and then more detailed for those interested.
1) The researchers determined political orientation primarily using a five point scale (very liberal to very conservative). Out of their 90 participants, none chose "very conservative", so they simply changed the scale after getting responses on a different scale (they manipulated their data)..
No, not really. Also, I don't know which manipulation you are referring to. I am not sure which things they did because they didn't know any better, and which they did knowing that it was bad research but wanting to get certain results. After all, it is not typical to have a neuroscience study with one author who is an actor, and another who is a journalist. Also, Kanai has worked almost exclusively on vision and the visual system. It's what he did his doctoral thesis on, and for some reason before that after earning a B.Sc he published a number of papers on the issue. Rees is a bit of an oddball. He's one of the neuroscientists that came into the field from another, much like a number of physicists. At any rate, nobody in the group had any experience with this kind of research.Where are you finding this information regarding the OP?
EDIT: Found it. You claim they manipulated the data out of spite?
In fact, in addition to a number of books designed to give researchers a better understanding of the techniques they use, the last few decades have seen ever more complaints, criticisms, and warnings about the misuse of statistics within the social sciences. To give just a few examples, we have Rein Taagepera's Making Social Sciences More Scientific: The Need for Predictive Models (Oxford University Press, 2008), Peter Fayer's "Alphas, betas and skewy distributions: two ways of getting the wrong answer" (Advances in Health Science Education, vol. 16), the edited volume Measurement in the Social Sciences: Theories and Strategies (1974), Gerd Gigerenzer's "Mindless statistics" (The Journal of Socio-Economics vol. 33), Taagepera's "Adding meaning to regression" (European Political Science 10), and on and on.
The problem is that most of the people who seem to read or take such works seriously are the same people who are already aware of the problems. And that's without getting into the lack of instruction on the underlying philosophy, epistemology, and justification for standard methodological approaches.
In one fMRI study I was involved in, we did look at scans of people who had to make response judgments about religious and other groups or categories of people. At best, you can argue at the end that there is some consistent way in which members of some category (e.g., "Christians" or "religious people") are processed by the same parts of the brain that also process categories (or other members of the same category) which are perceived as similar. Thus, for example, I might be able to say that religious people tend to use some PFC region to a statistically signficantly greater extent than non-religious, but even that would be contentious. As for interpeting what that means, it would be useless.
Let's say I believe that processing even abstract concepts relies on sensorimotor regions of the brain (embodied cognition). So I run a bunch of subjects through some neuroimaging experimental paradigm involving words, pictures, or both. I notice that when subjects hear words like "mountain", "shark", "movie", etc., neural regions in the visual cortex "light up", and when subjects hear words like "hammer", "fork", "screwdriver", "baseball", etc., as well as words like "walking", "waving", "kicking", "pointing", etc., not only do I find activity in the motor cortex, but I find that words associated with the activity of particular body-parts (e.g., leg or arm) are differentially activated in the motor cortex somatotopically. Basically, regions which are more involved with leg movements are far more active when the subject hears words like "kicking" or "walking" (or sees images of these actions) relative not only to other action words but also to abstract nouns and pseudowords.
People have been doing this kind of research basically since neuroimaging became possible. The problem is what to make of the data. A common interpretation is that the reason sensorimotor regions are significantly differentially activated when processing words is that even abstract words rely on more basic sensorimotor experience, because humans learn concepts through their motor and sensory experience in the world. Therefore, the meaning of words is distributed not only across regions associated with higher cognitive processing and with memory, but also across sensorimotor regions.
Another interpretation, however, is that the observed activation has nothing to do with semantic processing (i.e., the meaning of the words). There are various explanations for the observed activation in sensorimotor regions, some based on other experimental evidence, but that's not really important here.
The important thing is that the problem isn't a matter of falsification or null hypotheses. It has to do with the adequacy of the experimental paradigms, methods, instruments, but not usually data analyses (i.e., statistical techniques). In principle, embodied cognition is falsifiable in the same way classical models of abstract semantic processing are. However, as the disagreement is not about the data (and often not even about the experimental paradigm), but is mostly over how the methods used were flawed and/or the interpretation of the results were problematic, falsification is pragmatically impossible.
To make it even simpler, we can have two teams carry out identical experiments and get (for all practical purposes) identical results, and have totally different findings because the results are interpreted according to different theoretical frameworks. This makes null hypothesis testing pretty useless, because reaching the desired alpha level is meaningless without the interpretation of exactly what is significant.
And that's without getting into the unbelievable number of ways to misuse statistical models (due to a lack of understanding) and get a result which allows the rejection of the null
I really owe you a big fat pack of frubals for your contributions. Awesome stuff.---- Brevity snip ----
But as the public eats these studies up, and seeing brainscans is just so cool, the bad science just doesn't stop.
---- End Brevity snip ----
I really owe you a big fat pack of frubals for your contributions. Awesome stuff.
I really owe you a big fat pack of frubals for your contributions. Awesome stuff.
So your point is that the study referenced in the OP uses fuzzy math and is really pointing to this part of the brain labelled as fear, when in reality it could mean fear and other attributes?No, not really. Also, I don't know which manipulation you are referring to. I am not sure which things they did because they didn't know any better, and which they did knowing that it was bad research but wanting to get certain results.
No, sorry. The reference to fuzzy sets was to show that just because neither of the scientists had worked on this kind of study before doesn't mean that they didn't have any clue. The cognitive sciences are extremely broad in terms of the number of different fields they involve. So even though one might specialize in the visual system, that doesn't per se prevent them from being capable of talking about large number of other topics. One the one hand, the cognitive sciences include philosophers (of language, of mind, of science, of logic, etc.), linguists, even anthropologists. On the other, it includes engineers, computer scientists, mathematicians, physicists, biologists, etc. Clearly, most biologists don't work in the cognitive sciences nor do most of the others listed. This is because it is an interdisciplinary field.So your point is that the study referenced in the OP uses fuzzy math and is really pointing to this part of the brain labelled as fear, when in reality it could mean fear and other attributes?
It's pretty much splitting hairs to say that one category of people are more fearful than another category of people. All of us humans are basically scared little creatures scurrying around, randomly bumping into things, and then pretending like we meant to bump into them all along.
I will address your posts tomorrow. I want to read them as I did before. Although they are lengthy. Don't be mad cause I don't instantly reply.Last one (for all our sakes, especially the readers who were kind enough to lend support and thanks rather than openly display hatred, disgust, etc., at my lengthy and overly-detailed posts).