Considering Islam

[A-ManESL]

Yes, it is something I have considered a few times too. Islam has some beautiful aspects. Such a shame that politics and God cannot be divided. Thanks for the reply.

Onkara why do you feel that this is a shame? Islam is a way and attitude of the heart, it is not a sphere of life which can be treated in isolation with other spheres. Is it a shame to have an attitude which see's the underlying Absolute behind everything and seeks to harmonize or be at peace with it?

Regards

 

[Nerthus]

Yes, it is something I have considered a few times too. Islam has some beautiful aspects. Such a shame that politics and God cannot be divided. Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, it's too easy for people to judge a religion based on what they only hear about - I always have to find out things for myself, I will never go on what I hear about a religion in the news. It's usually very misunderstood.

There are many things about Islam I do like, but then many I don't agree with - so still something I need to think about.

 

[Sahar]

Great question, A-ManESL.

 

[Onkara]

Onkara why do you feel that this is a shame? Islam is a way and attitude of the heart, it is not a sphere of life which can be treated in isolation with other spheres. Is it a shame to have an attitude which see's the underlying Absolute behind everything and seeks to harmonize or be at peace with it?

Regards

It is a good question. I speak lightly when I say it could be separated as I know there is no way anything can be separated. But I will address the philosophy of my statement

Islam is a way of life, completely. I do not doubt it. But what of politics?

Politics are wants and the balancing of what people want.

What Allah wants from us, I can only hope to achieve. My submission to Allah's will over-rides any of my wants and will. I cannot want for another what Allah wants for me, as in doing so I attribute equal or more value to my will than that of Allah's.

It is not enough to say "Allah's will is mine". It is wrong to think that I know Allah's will well enough to exercise my will or wants on other people. I can only follow the Quran and submit to Allah. I would submit my will completely to Allah. There can be no more "wants" of my own. What ever Allah wills is sufficient.

So how can I exercise political wants in Allah's name? I contradict myself in righteousness and self-pride. I create an ideal in His name.

Now that does not mean there cannot be self-respect (if Allah wills that).

No disrespect to any of you intended

PS: Please feel free if you wish to continue, to take this up via PM or open a new thread, in respect for our friend, Nerthus.

 

[Onkara]

Yeah, it's too easy for people to judge a religion based on what they only hear about - I always have to find out things for myself, I will never go on what I hear about a religion in the news. It's usually very misunderstood.

There are many things about Islam I do like, but then many I don't agree with - so still something I need to think about.

Hi Nerthus
Yes, my interest is really how to deal with it with family and friends, good or bad. It wasn't my intention to cause polemics with this question or impose that anything is "bad" about Islam. It is based on your circumstances. You could have said everyone would be delighted, it was just a question.

In fact I personally would have a hard time announcing any religion as my choice to those I know, even Christianity. Talking about religion is almost taboo in the UK, I would say (like you I am British). That is something personal and not relevant, but I need to point this out as I am afraid I wasn't clear or it could lead to negative feelings, unintentionally.

 

[atanu]

Here is an anti Shariah poem in Punjabi by Bulleh Shah (translated):

Stay silent to survive. People cannot stand to hear the truth. They are at your throat if you speak it. They keep away from those who speak it. But truth is sweet to its lovers! Truth destroys shara (shariah). Brings rapture to its lovers, And unexpected riches, Which shara (shariah) obscures. Those lovers cannot remain silent Who have inhaled the fragrance of truth. Those who have woven love into their lives, Leave this world of falsehood. Bulleh Shah speaks the truth. He uncovers the truth of shara (shariah). He opens the path to the fourth level, Which shara (shariah) obscures.

Hello J2hapydna

I am a Hindu and possibly should not write here.

But, echoing A-ManESL, I state that Bulle Shah is not anti Shariah here. Let me explain. Pardon me for trying to explain this from a Hindu perspective.

Eternally, there have been the karma kandis (believers of external correct acts called dharma) and believers of knowledge who do not have to adhere to dharma. Apparently these two groups are opposed to each other.

Shri Krishna teaches, on one hand, to perform dharmic acts and on the other He guides "Leave all dharma and submit to me". Is Shri Krishna anti dharma? No. Evidently, the latter way is the way of the saints -- who have overcome the fight over individual desires of ego.

That said, I have same view as Onkara, that complications may arise when wrong dharma (read shariat) is imposed or when a non saint asserts that dharma or shariat is useless. But that is the world. Isn't it?

I apologise to Muslim friends if I have unnecessarily intruded in this thread.

...

 

[J2hapydna]

Only replying to your posts in this thread. No worries.

I would suggest you follow the rules, if you expect others to follow them.

 

[UmmSqueakster]

What is the "orthodxy" and what is the "liberal Muslim"?
I am sure there are Muslims (scholars and average Muslims) out there who don't find a problem with the good music, would find it self-contradictory to use something like "liberal Muslim". And they also think they don't have to classify those who agrees with their view as "liberal" and who disagree with them as "orthodoxy" and blind followers of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Because they know that as long as there is disagreement between the scholars, every one can choose any of the opinions. They are all Muslims and followers of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. There is no need to make up a division between them where there is not.

It is also too simple to attempt to divide muslims into an orthodox and liberal category. The most literal, hardline, quran and sunnah following, qiyas rejecting madhab of all time, the zaharis, allowed musical instruments. But then, they reach this conclusion by engaging the Qur'an and Sunnah, not whining that others are too literalist and blind followers.

With issues such as these, I think potential converts should be aware that a portion of muslims believe X, another group believes Y, it's a contentious issue that has been argued for more than a thousand years, and it isn't going to be solved any time soon.

 

[J2hapydna]

Hello J2hapydna

I am a Hindu and possibly should not write here.

But, echoing A-ManESL, I state that Bulle Shah is not anti Shariah here. Let me explain. Pardon me for trying to explain this from a Hindu perspective.

Eternally, there have been the karma kandis (believers of external correct acts called dharma) and believers of knowledge who do not have to adhere to dharma. Apparently these two groups are opposed to each other.

Shri Krishna teaches, on one hand, to perform dharmic acts and on the other He guides "Leave all dharma and submit to me". Is Shri Krishna anti dharma? No. Evidently, the latter way is the way of the saints -- who have overcome the fight over individual desires of ego.

That said, I have same view as Onkara, that complications may arise when wrong dharma (read shariat) is imposed or when a non saint asserts that dharma or shariat is useless. But that is the world. Isn't it?

I apologise to Muslim friends if I have unnecessarily intruded in this thread.

...

Quite right, Bulleh Shah did understand the proper spirit of the law (Shariah). So, in that sense he was not against the proper following of Shariah, as A-ManESL has already suggested. Very nice, thankyou.

 

[Nerthus]

I am actually finding it difficult to find posts directed towards me here. If you guys don't mind, can you please take any disagreements elsewhere?

 

[A-ManESL]

Dear Onkara, having my read your post my contention is now that you have incompletely understood "surrender" as implied by Islam, it does not mean a simplistic surrender in which you interpret it, rather it means to accede to the primordial natural state within which all things already are and in which man is naturally supposed to be. Since as Nerthus pointed out, this thread is indeed being hijacked, I agree that we should "cease and desist" here and possibly take the discussion to another thread.

Regards

 

[Rafique]

Is anyone able to answer my question?

"Do they seek for other than the Religion of God? - while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling,accepted Islam, and to Him shall they all be brought back."-Holy Quran-3:83

'A church,a temple or a kaba stone,
Quran or Bible or a martyr's bone,
All these and more my heart can tolerate,
Since my religion now is love alone'-Abul Ala

 

[rain21]

hmmm, reading comments

 

[Gharib]

I have been thinking recently about Islam, I don't know too much about it and am going to study it more regardless of whether I actually become Muslim.

I was just wondering about the main changes becoming Muslim would involve? I know there are prayers, and wearing a hijaab, but how being Muslim would change my daily life - I'm still not to up on!

I don't really come from a religious background, but have attended Church on a number of occasions, but Christianity just didn't seem right.

I hope I don't come across as too naive - I will admit that I don't know too much about Islam, I am still learning, but would like to take it to the next step and don't want to end up doing something that I do now, that I shouldn't do as a Muslim (drinking, smoking, doing certain things etc).

Not that it particularly matters, but I am a white female in the UK.

Any advice would really be appreciated, as I hope to really look into Islam and see whether it feels right for me.

Hi Nerthus, i think i'm a bit late replying but i'd like to anyways.

Regarding your question, it is wrong to say how islam will change your life. if you look at it that way then it will be very hard to actually become a muslim and stay one. it is not islam that comes to you it is you that goes to islam, if you are prepared to change and do things for the sake of Allah and none other and you are sincere about it, then you will find no dificulty in making those changes. you wont even feel them if islam truely enters your heart. it's all about you wanting to become a muslim, if you want to and you feel that it is right, then the changes shouldn't worry you.

in order for these changes to have a very low effect on your daily life, i would strongly recommend that you spend a lot of time with muslims. there are no better people to hang out with regarding islam than muslims, same thing with christianity and christians, or atheism and atheists.

and on this, i don't know if you know about the history of the quran, but it was revealed gradually for 23 years, the laws of what is forbiden and permitted began to be revelaed 13 years after the first revelation, in that, there is a lesson. you cannot become a proper muslim overnight, i doesn't happen. if you are going to give up some things as a start, then give up major and open sins. it is better to commit a sin that only you and Allah know rather than that which you, other people and Allah knows. and it is better to commit a small sin than a major sin.

some of the major changes would involve, praying (if you find it dificult to do 5 straight away then do less don't leave the morning and evening prayers do just these if all 5 are dificult) fast when the month of ramadan comes, wear the Hijab, can't have a boyfriend (sorry don't know your age) can't go to night clubs, can't eat pork, no alcohol, no smoking.

thats all i can think of right now. don't know much about you so can't really say much.

i hope it works out for you, insha allah.

 

[Nerthus]

My mind still keeps going back to Islam. I don't know why, or even how to start should I decide to take the next step.

 

[Peace]

My mind still keeps going back to Islam. I don't know why, .

Because that's fitrah (the innate nature) of human being is Islam

or even how to start should I decide to take the next step

Yes, you have to decide yourself and make the next step. If you are convinced of Islam then I believe the next step is to contact the nearest mosque in your region. May our dear creator be your guide!

 

[elmarna]

the truths of islam can not be taken from your heart!

 

[Mintz]

Sister I understand exactly where you're coming from. I am a western female who reverted to Islam, and Christianity never made sense to me. I started by researching Islam and reading as much as I could.. As my faith grew, my bad habits just naturally stopped, and this just came naturally. The more faith you have, the easier it will get to change your lifestyle. Upon reverting, you must start with your 5 daily prayers because this is the most important aspect of submission. This is the first thing Allah swt will ask us about on the Judgement day. Things like character and manners will slowly change as they still are for me. I've only been a Muslim for under a year! but I have changed soooo much in that short amount of time. Your journey will start upon saying your shahada and Allah will shower you with blessings for accepting the truth. It seems like your heart is telling you what the right thing to do is, and Allah only chooses those worthy of his Mercy for the path of Islam.

I'd love to chat with you some more and we could share some thoughts. Please PM me if you're interested

May Allah keep you on the straight path.

 

[Peace]

Sister I understand exactly where you're coming from. I am a western female who reverted to Islam, and Christianity never made sense to me. I started by researching Islam and reading as much as I could.. As my faith grew, my bad habits just naturally stopped, and this just came naturally. The more faith you have, the easier it will get to change your lifestyle. Upon reverting, you must start with your 5 daily prayers because this is the most important aspect of submission. This is the first thing Allah swt will ask us about on the Judgement day. Things like character and manners will slowly change as they still are for me. I've only been a Muslim for under a year! but I have changed soooo much in that short amount of time. Your journey will start upon saying your shahada and Allah will shower you with blessings for accepting the truth. It seems like your heart is telling you what the right thing to do is, and Allah only chooses those worthy of his Mercy for the path of Islam.

I'd love to chat with you some more and we could share some thoughts. Please PM me if you're interested

May Allah keep you on the straight path.

Good post sister masha'Allah! May our dear Allah keep you firm on the right path and guide us all the His everlasting light, ameen!!

 

[Mintz]

Good post sister masha'Allah! May our dear Allah keep you firm on the right path and guide us all the His everlasting light, ameen!!

Ameen, Allahu Akbar