contradictions in the bible???

[Autodidact]

So, can you cite these two "Spirit filled Christians"? Who are they, and where did they say these things?

You surely wouldn't pull these out of your arse, now would you?

It's what's known as a hypothetical question. And yes, I make up my own hypos. Are you saying that there are not two such point of views in Christianity? Because I can give you sites, if you want.

Or are you saying that they're only contradictory statements if not made by actual Spirit-filled Christians? That's what we would call special pleading.

Now would you answer the question?

 

[Autodidact]

You've never heard a Christian say that non-believers will suffer in Hell? You've never heard a Christian say that there is no such place as Hell?

 

[Poisonshady313]

You've never heard a Christian say that non-believers will suffer in Hell? You've never heard a Christian say that there is no such place as Hell?

Or, at the very least, that Hell is irrelevant because "all will be saved" whether they want it or not...

 

[Scuba Pete]

You've never heard a Christian say that non-believers will suffer in Hell? You've never heard a Christian say that there is no such place as Hell?

No. Please give us some sources. Context is essential here.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Or are you saying that they're only contradictory statements if not made by actual Spirit-filled Christians? That's what we would call special pleading.

Shenanigans! Actually, this has been the case ALL along. It's what I stated. It's up to YOU to prove it wrong, and you haven't come close. Most Christians don't really believe in the Spirit. How could they be guided by the Spirit?

What is happening here is the typical bludgeoning of my beliefs. It's atheistic proselytizing. You won't be satisfied until I say that there is no God. It's intolerance and it's pretty despicable. No wonder you are getting frustrated: you have no way of proving your point.

 

[Autodidact]

No. Please give us some sources. Context is essential here.

IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL. Is there some context in which the statements that there is a hell and there is no hell are consistent?

Here's the question, oh evasive one:
1. Hell exists.
2. Hell does not exist.

Are both of these statements true, if uttered by spirit-filled Christians?

 

[Autodidact]

Shenanigans! Actually, this has been the case ALL along. It's what I stated. It's up to YOU to prove it wrong, and you haven't come close. Most Christians don't really believe in the Spirit. How could they be guided by the Spirit?

What is happening here is the typical bludgeoning of my beliefs. It's atheistic proselytizing. You won't be satisfied until I say that there is no God. It's intolerance and it's pretty despicable. No wonder you are getting frustrated: you have no way of proving your point.

That is what you're saying? That if two spirit-filled Christians make contradictory statements, they can both be true, but if two non-Christians make the same set of statements, only one can be true? That the elementary rules of logic, without which no discourse or reasoning is possible, do not apply to Christians? Is that truly the position you want to take?

What is happening here, Pete, is that you're losing the argument. That's why you're whining. Believe me, I'm already very satisfied with this discussion. So far you've told us that your basic belief system is circular, and that under it, A and not A are both true. I'm satisfied with that. Are you?

 

[Scuba Pete]

That is what you're saying? That if two spirit-filled Christians make contradictory statements, they can both be true, but if two non-Christians make the same set of statements, only one can be true?

No, I didn't say that.

That the elementary rules of logic, without which no discourse or reasoning is possible, do not apply to Christians? Is that truly the position you want to take?

You should try to use them then and not abuse them.
Given: the Spirit is a SUPER natural being.
Given: both Christians are imbued with the Spirit.
Given: both Christians will have slightly different understandings.
Ergo: any perceived contradictions will be superficial and not substantial.

What is happening here, Pete,

Is that you won't accept my answer until I become an atheist. No whining: just an obvious fact. You are not trying to understand WHAT I believe or even why. You just get your jollies by trying to bully people. It's your MO. Bludgeon your opponent into submission by saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

 

[Autodidact]

I'm totally confused, Pete. Maybe it would help if you just answered my questions, O.K.? (hmm--have I ever requested that before?) So, say hypothetically that two spirit-filled Christians make diametrically opposite statements, such as that there is a Hell and there is no Hell, are they both true?

Someone pointing out problems with your logic is not proseltyzing, Pete, they're discussing. That's what RF is for.

I'm not trying to get you, nor do I expect you, to agree with me. All that I expect of you is to show us your reasoning so that we can examine it and draw our own conclusions. And so far I really don't understand yours. Now you seem to be saying that any two statements that any Christians make about the Bible are both true, no matter how contradictory they may appear. Is that right or not? I'm not trying to force your answer, I'm just trying to find out what it is.

 

[Autodidact]

No, I didn't say that. You should try to use them then and not abuse them.
Given: the Spirit is a SUPER natural being.
Given: both Christians are imbued with the Spirit.
Given: both Christians will have slightly different understandings.
Ergo: any perceived contradictions will be superficial and not substantial.

And in fact is that what we see? That the only perceived contradictions between Christians are superficial and not substantial? For example, Mr. Emu says it's GOOD to kill pagan babies. Scuba Pete says it's BAD. Is that only a superficial difference? Are you both right? Is it possible for you both to be right?

Is that you won't accept my answer until I become an atheist. No whining: just an obvious fact. You are not trying to understand WHAT I believe or even why. You just get your jollies by trying to bully people. It's your MO. Bludgeon your opponent into submission by saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

No one's asked you to become anything, Pete. It's not my problem if you want to live with an irrational, contradictory and circular belief system. I do think you should be honest with yourself and us about that, though.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I'm totally confused, Pete. Maybe it would help if you just answered my questions,

What you need to do, is to just accept my beliefs for what they are. You have already asked, I have answered, and you just don't get it.

I have shown you in scriptures WHY you won't get it, and you don't get that either.

It's like describing color to a blind man. You simply don't have the perception to be able to relate to what I am saying. It's not that you are as dumb as a brick, it's just that spiritually, you are blind as one.

You are talking about spiritual concepts using physical terms. That's just frustrating at best.

 

[Poisonshady313]

What you need to do, is to just accept my beliefs for what they are. You have already asked, I have answered, and you just don't get it.

I have shown you in scriptures WHY you won't get it, and you don't get that either.

It's like describing color to a blind man. You simply don't have the perception to be able to relate to what I am saying. It's not that you are as dumb as a brick, it's just that spiritually, you are blind as one.

You are talking about spiritual concepts using physical terms. That's just frustrating at best.

Unless, of course, you're just not very good at explaining yourself...

 

[Scuba Pete]

Unless, of course, you're just not very good at explaining yourself...

Oh, I am sure that i am more than inadequate to do that. How silly of me to even try. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Poisonshady313]

Oh, I am sure that i am more than inadequate to do that. How silly of me to even try. Thanks for pointing that out!

I aim to please.

 

[Autodidact]

What you need to do, is to just accept my beliefs for what they are. You have already asked, I have answered, and you just don't get it.

I have shown you in scriptures WHY you won't get it, and you don't get that either.

It's like describing color to a blind man. You simply don't have the perception to be able to relate to what I am saying. It's not that you are as dumb as a brick, it's just that spiritually, you are blind as one.

You are talking about spiritual concepts using physical terms. That's just frustrating at best.

As I have told you several times, the fact that someone disagrees with you does not mean that they don't understand you. It may mean that they understand you all too well. At this point in the discussion, you have said so many contradictory things that no one knows what you believe, and it appears that your belief system is an incoherent and inconsistent mish-mash. This current complaint seems like yet another attempt to ignore a repeated, polite, direct question. Your evasiveness also does not speak well for your belief system.

My question is not complicated, and has not yet been answered, or rather has been answered in two contradictory ways. It is this: If two Christians, both informed by the Spirit, come to two opposite contradictory conclusions about what part of the Bible to believe, are they both right?

Once you answer that, then we can follow up with the implications, either way.

Or are you asserting that this cannot happen?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Autodidact]

Again, Pete, it would be much easier, as well as more polite, if you would just answer my questions. Thank you in advance.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If two Christians, both informed by the Spirit, come to two opposite contradictory conclusions about what part of the Bible to believe, are they both right?

I'd love to play. But, sadly, I'm not a Christian, and I certainly would not wish to speak for one - no matter how adolescent the interrogation. Carry on ... :beach:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I'd love to play. But, sadly, I'm not a Christian, and I certainly would not wish to speak for one - no matter how adolescent the interrogation. Carry on ... :beach:

.....I'm watching and reading from a far....and it is quite amusing....

 

[Autodidact]

I'd love to play. But, sadly, I'm not a Christian, and I certainly would not wish to speak for one - no matter how adolescent the interrogation. Carry on ... :beach:

Well, I was really asking Pete, so thanks anyway.

 

[2 Timothy 2:15]

my question is not complicated, and has not yet been answered, or rather has been answered in two contradictory ways. It is this: If two christians, both informed by the spirit, come to two opposite contradictory conclusions about what part of the bible to believe, are they both right?

Once you answer that, then we can follow up with the implications, either way.

Or are you asserting that this cannot happen?

Thank you in advance.

well autodidact it is possible that neither one is correct...there are about a billion christians in the world and most if not all of them contradict each other. This means that there must be about a billion different jesus all informed by about a billion different spirits. The entire world must see something wrong with christians by now. The old church under the original apostles didn't have all of this dissension and if they did disagree they discussed it and came to one understanding. Oh but now you have christians spread out amongst 100 religions. Why don't people just stop trying to be christians and follow the jewish jesus