contradictions in the bible???

[Scuba Pete]

He didn't, except in mythology.

Damn, he's still alive? WHOA, that's a news story!

 

[kmkemp]

Damn, he's still alive? WHOA, that's a news story!

Haven't you seen the new Dracula movies? (Dracula 2000 and Dracula 3000)

 

[Nessa]

How can a literal Biblical interpretation of Genesis be reconciled with the history of the Chinese Civilization? Or for that matter, any civilization prior to 4000 BC .

Bible timeline

If this has been discussed, I'm sorry, this is a very long thread.

 

[crystalonyx]

Damn, he's still alive? WHOA, that's a news story!

I said supposedly.

 

[gnostic]

How can a literal Biblical interpretation of Genesis be reconciled with the history of the Chinese Civilization? Or for that matter, any civilization prior to 4000 BC .

Bible timeline

If this has been discussed, I'm sorry, this is a very long thread.

Thanks for the interesting link.

 

[Charity]

He didn't, except in mythology. I think there is a book supposedly written by Judas.

May I inquire what book was written by Judas? Was this prior to or after his supposed hanging of himself? I guess he was" hanging" around to write a book ?

 

[Charity]

Damn, he's still alive? WHOA, that's a news story!

Yes Pete, he has just sort of been "hanging " around.....

 

[Charity]

after refering to original greek translations, I found out that Judas hanged himself upside down, that is why he fell headlong ....

no contradiction...

Please tell me no matter what translation that one could hang one's self upside down? He must have died of starvation and dehydration because gravity was against him........ That is providing he was hanging by his ankles.....Or perhaps there are 2 distinct possibilities:
1. Judas hanged himself and that due to the decaying state of the body it fell to the ground and rocks below , and falling headlong, his abdomen burst open spilling out his bowels, or someone could have cut him down after he hung himself.

2. The second possibility is that the word "hanged" means "impaled"
The Greek Historian Herodotus wrote of this which was confirmed by pictures and statues, a tradition known in the ancient near East. The hanging was an exhibition of the corpse and not the method of the way the person died.....

So that could also account for 2 different versions that were written in the bible. One may have seen the hanging corpse after the first person saw Judas on the rocks below.....If so then it is possible that Judas could have been hanging upside down at the time the second witness saw him...Because they brought the body back up from the field and put it on display.......
This would also account for uss bigd's explanation of finding it in the Greek translation..... Unless Judas was attempting to become the first bungee jumper, and things didn't work out as planned...............

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

May I inquire what book was written by Judas? Was this prior to or after his supposed hanging of himself? I guess he was" hanging" around to write a book ?

The Gospel of Judas, apparently. There was an article in National Geographic about it and other ancient writings discovered a few years ago.

Please tell me no matter what translation that one could hang one's self upside down? He must have died of starvation and dehydration because gravity was against him........ That is providing he was hanging by his ankles.....Or perhaps there are 2 distinct possibilities:
1. Judas hanged himself and that due to the decaying state of the body it fell to the ground and rocks below , and falling headlong, his abdomen burst open spilling out his bowels, or someone could have cut him down after he hung himself.

Yeah, I've heard that one before. It seems to me to be a stretch, but I suppose it's internally consistent... if only barely.

2. The second possibility is that the word "hanged" means "impaled"
The Greek Historian Herodotus wrote of this which was confirmed by pictures and statues, a tradition known in the ancient near East. The hanging was an exhibition of the corpse and not the method of the way the person died.....

Matthew 27:5 states that Judas hanged himself. That would have been hard to do if he were already dead.

 

[Charity]

Penguin, what I am saying is there are conflicting statements about the method of death for Judas.....I know what it says in Mat 27, but in Acts it states that he fell headlong,This appears to be conflicting views, not saying that he hung himself.....So I am saying how 2 opposing views could have happened.....Please read the post again.....Also in the Bible we have the book of Jude, although Jude is a Hebrew form of Judah and the Greek "Judas". It is believed that this book was written by either Judas the brother of the Lord or Judas another apostle, not Judas Iscariot....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Penguin, what I am saying is there are conflicting statements about the method of death for Judas.....I know what it says in Mat 27, but in Acts it states that he fell headlong,This appears to be conflicting views, not saying that he hung himself.....So I am saying how 2 opposing views could have happened.....Please read the post again.....

I read it. My point was that the idea of Judas being hanged after death as a way to display his corpse would conflict with Matthew, in which it says it was Judas himself who performed the hanging.

Also in the Bible we have the book of Jude, although Jude is a Hebrew form of Judahand the Greek "Judas". It is believed that this book was written by either Judas the brother of the Lord or Judas another apostle, not Judas Iscariot....

The Gospel of Judas is an apocryphal Gospel not generally accepted by Christians (or non-Christians, for that matter). The Gospel of Judas that the article describes gives an account of the Gospel from Judas' perspective. In it, Judas is a reluctant and misunderstood force for good, who is asked by Jesus to turn Him over to the authorities.

 

[Charity]

Ok I see what you mean by the book of Judas, thanks.....

 

[crystalonyx]

The Gospel of Judas is an apocryphal Gospel not generally accepted by Christians ). .

Big surprise here. LOL

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Big surprise here. LOL

Why would they automatically accept it?

I've noticed a trend in some non-Christians where they treat the canonical books of the Bible with great skepticism, but then just accept any apocryphal books that come along.

There were plenty of fake Gospels floating around in the early days of Christianity. Even if you believe that there's some vast Christian conspiracy to cover up the real truth of Jesus, you also have to recognize that there was a lot of fake garbage floating around pretending to be scriptural back then. Personally, I have no reason to believe that the Gospel of Judas wasn't some fabrication that was made up in an effort to hop on the bandwagon of the other Gospels.

 

[logician]

Why would they automatically accept it?

I've noticed a trend in some non-Christians where they treat the canonical books of the Bible with great skepticism, but then just accept any apocryphal books that come along.

There were plenty of fake Gospels floating around in the early days of Christianity. Even if you believe that there's some vast Christian conspiracy to cover up the real truth of Jesus, you also have to recognize that there was a lot of fake garbage floating around pretending to be scriptural back then. Personally, I have no reason to believe that the Gospel of Judas wasn't some fabrication that was made up in an effort to hop on the bandwagon of the other Gospels.

The point here isn't the validity of said books, I don't believe any of them for a minute, it's just that the Council of NIocea picked and chose the books that backed the Jesus story they wanted told, and pretty much obliterated the rest.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The point here isn't the validity of said books, I don't believe any of them for a minute, it's just that the Council of NIocea picked and chose the books that backed the Jesus story they wanted told, and pretty much obliterated the rest.

That is foolishly and pathetically inaccurate, a fact that has been repeatedly made on these forums.

In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books as what would become the New Testament canon, and he used the word "canonized" (kanonizomena) in regards to them. The African Synod of Hippo, in 393, approved the New Testament, as it stands today, together with the Septuagint books, a decision that was repeated by Councils of Carthage in 397 and 419. These councils were under the authority of St. Augustine, who regarded the canon as already closed. Pope Damasus I's Council of Rome in 382, if the Decretum Gelasianum is correctly associated with it, issued a biblical canon identical to that mentioned above, or if not the list is at least a sixth century compilation. Likewise, Damasus's commissioning of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, c. 383, was instrumental in the fixation of the canon in the West. In 405, Pope Innocent I sent a list of the sacred books to a Gallic bishop, Exsuperius of Toulouse. When these bishops and councils spoke on the matter, however, they were not defining something new, but instead "were ratifying what had already become the mind of the Church." Thus, from the fourth century, there existed unanimity in the West concerning the New Testament canon (as it is today), and by the fifth century the East, with a few exceptions, had come to accept the Book of Revelation and thus had come into harmony on the matter of the canon. [source]

Why do you persist in preaching authoritatively on topics of which you demonstrate significant ignorance?

 

[jenni_boo22]

What!? 3 heavens? i think there is a translation issue going on with the heavens meaning the sky and heaven meaning actual heaven. you have to remember that a lot of the little translations from hebrew to greek to english have affected the way we can read the bible today... how can we be sure that those who translated it were right?

 

[jenni_boo22]

also, i think the old testament is meant to be taken a little bit more figuratively. so to compare the writings of the old and the new for contradictions is not really fair. a lot changed in the world when Jesus came i mean A LOT!!

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

My co-worker tried to convince me the other day that there are no contradictions within the bible. Supposedly those that see contradictions are unable to follow simple rules, and are not knowledgable enough to see the messages in the supposed contradictions.

:biglaugh:I was like, alrighty then...

Just thought I'd share.

Tootle-Loo:nightcraw:

 

[logician]

My co-worker tried to convince me the other day that there are no contradictions within the bible. Supposedly those that see contradictions are unable to follow simple rules, and are not knowledgable enough to see the messages in the supposed contradictions.

:biglaugh:I was like, alrighty then...

Just thought I'd share.

Tootle-Loo:nightcraw:

There are quite a number of contradictions between the gospels, certainly enough to entertain the notion they are works of fiction.