Conversion after death

[stvdv]

Not simple questions. Less clear is ultimate will of God concerning Salvation in the journey, because it is God's will and grace that saves. NOT Y/N questions, you are again asking for simple answers, bottom line no.


Egocentric views with people designing their own belief system to suit themselves is one of the problems causing disunity. Again . . . the journey of salvation is through many worlds, and not my opinion who is saved and who is not according to what they believe. If the claim of the Baha'i Faith is correct that God exists, Creates and Reveals in an evolving existence of our eternal journey as the Baha'i believes; then the unity, harmony and spiritual teachings of the Baha'i Faith is the best journey through this world and beyond.

I believe I was very clear and specific salvation is the journey through many worlds through the grace and will of God, and not whether any one person interprets on scripture or the other that any one person is saved or not.



As far as I have investigated Sai Baba he offered nothing new for the world already found in Hinduism, the Baha'i teachings.

There is one common belief in the Vedic religions that the Baha'i Faith does not agree with and that is the common belief in asceticism. The Bah'ai Faith considers asceticism a form of materialism with the denial of material things brings some kind of enlightenment and spiritual benefit.

The Baha'i Faith rejects both denial and indulgence of material things. The Middle Way. The relationship between one and the religions of the world has to beyond simple respect.



I study and reflect on many religions and religious movements including Sai Baba. I look for inspiration and understanding of what they share and believe. The problem is there are literally hundreds of gurus over recent history claiming t offer whatever. I look for the unifying nature of all religions and religious movements. The issue remains the journey of Salvation.

As I said, there hundreds of claims of wise men in the Vedic traditions, which is problematic.



Again too simplistic a description of what the Baha'i considers the purpose of the Baha'i Faith and the religions in general. Progressive revelation of knowledge and restoration of beliefs lost, such as, the unknowable Oneness of God's existence that cannot exclusively defined nor calimed by any one religion, guru nor teacher



I see nothing in the teachings of Sai Baba that offer nothing that Baha'i scriptures offer.



This claim is an attitude of hubris toward other religions and religious belief systems. The Age old claim that this or that belief is not a religion, and everyone else follows religions is egocentric beyond the ridiculous to the absurd. If one claims what Sai Baba claims and has followers of his teachings he has founded a religion.

Spiritual knowledge is potentially available to all humans, but claims to know or define it exclusively, and it is lost.

So, if I understand you well:
1: Yes Atheist can reach his highest goal in life, because God decides, and if God is very pleased with him, God will grant him his highest goal.
2: Yes Follower of Sai Baba [me] can reach also highest goal, because God decides what is the right path, for each one personally
3: ??? I think you made a mistake in the line below; 2 times nothing makes no sense to me.
I see nothing in the teachings of Sai Baba that offer nothing that Baha'i scriptures offer.
[Sai Baba had you make the above error; He is poorna avatar after all, not just another guru. He controls you even if you don't believe]

Thank you for taking the time to explain my questions according to your view as a follower of Bahai
Thank you for given the Bahai view. My major question/concern you have answered quite clear

 

[shunyadragon]

The Catechism as the Roman Church claims.



Opinions are human attribute not God's. The claim of the Roman Church.



So what?!?!!?!? Your not God!

Added to other post.

 

[shunyadragon]

[Sai Baba had you make the above error; He is poorna avatar after all, not just another guru. He controls you even if you don't believe]

As do many other gurus make the same claim. The Baha'i Faith does not make such absolute claim all has been revealed nor God nor a manifestation of God controls what everyone believes as you indicate Sai Baba claims.

The Baha'i Faith does respect other religious beliefs, but based on the absolute claim above you do not. One of the principles in the Baha'i Faith is the 'Independent investigation of truth, and most definitely not with all RESPECT when one controls what people believe.

 

[stvdv]

As do many other gurus make the same claim.

The Baha'i Faith does respect other religious beliefs, but based on the absolute claim above you do not.

I do respect other religious beliefs. Poorna Avatar is the Full incarnation of the Divine with all 16 attributes.

So from my viewpoint, Sai Baba being full consciousness, He indeed rules you and everything. This has nothing to do with me not respecting you or other religions. Just my belief system. I don't expect you to believe what I believe. And I leave you free to believe what you believe. You can freely express what you believe, as can I. At least that is what I thought.

I have full respect for all belief systems. No better or worse in my dictionary. Just respect.

 

[shunyadragon]

I do respect other religious beliefs. Poorna Avatar is the Full incarnation of the Divine with all 16 attributes.

So from my viewpoint, Sai Baba being full consciousness, He indeed rules you and everything. This has nothing to do with me not respecting you or other religions. Just my belief system. I don't expect you to believe what I believe. And I leave you free to believe what you believe. You can freely express what you believe, as can I. At least that is what I thought.

I have full respect for all belief systems. No better or worse in my dictionary. Just respect.

Respect has little or no meaning when your leader makes these claims. What other people who beleived differently would all be rejected off hand

 

[stvdv]

Respect has little or no meaning when your leader makes these claims.

I only expressed my believe in Sai Baba being a poorna avatar. That's a totally legitimate part of indian Sanathana Dharma.
I did in no way disrespect other religions, just expressed my own religion. I said nothing demeaning about Bahai and it's Messenger.
You were the one starting with demeaning words. I just ignored those. Now you continue to belittle my leader making claims.....

So my best option is:"Let's agree to disagree"

Love, Peace and Blessings to all of us
Namastee

 

[shunyadragon]

I only expressed my believe in Sai Baba being a poorna avatar. That's a totally legitimate part of indian Sanathana Dharma.
I did in no way disrespect other religions, just expressed my own religion. I said nothing demeaning about Bahai and it's Messenger.
You were the one starting with demeaning words. I just ignored those. Now you continue to belittle my leader making claims.....

So my best option is:"Let's agree to disagree"

Love, Peace and Blessings to all of us
Namastee

Well, ah . . . yes you did. You said the Baha'i Faith did not respect other religions.

This may be your personal view, but it is in contradiction to your Master who you claim controls what everyone believes.

 

[stvdv]

Well, ah . . . yes you did. You said the Baha'i Faith did not respect other religions.

This may be your personal view, but it is in contradiction to your Master who you claim controls what everyone believes.

I started off with the below:

I read Bahai and understood from Bahaullah that all religions are a path to God. Then I asked a dutch Bahai and he said "Yes all religions lead to God................................but they have to accept Bahai to get to the final destination". That felt very bad. So I'm glad you don't declare with certainty that you have the truth

So actually I litereally said that I understood from Bahaullah that Bahai Faith does respect other religions. Only a Dutch Bahai said something different. That felt bad. That's all I said. And I stand by that. So I didn't say that Bahai Faith didn't respect other religions. And I was happy that you said "that this Dutch view was not correct". Sai Baba only says that He is God. Nothing more. He doesn't say that you must follow Him to reach God. Any religion will do. Be a good human is enough according to Him (but His standards for human are quite high). So I admit Sai Baba makes it quite simple to understand how to reach God. But not easy.

Seen from Advaita the claim from Sai Baba [I am God, consciousness and so are you. Only you haven't realized it yet, that's your goal in life. And SB being God/consciousness is the doer of everything, so if that is true then He makes you speak etc is also true] is nothing special. If you don't believe in this part of Advaita that's oke for me. But I believe this to be true. That's why I said "let's agree to disagree".

Namastee

 

[paarsurrey]

Conversion after death

Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.

I believe that Buddha was a non-Jewish prophet/messenger of G-d and Jesus was a Jewish prophet/messenger of G-d, they both were in different ages, so they need not to accept one another, by name. I believe that they both are in heaven and are very close to G-d. They both received enlightenment from the same G-d, it is for this, that their teachings and many events have much similarity.
Hence, neither Buddha needs to convert to become a Christian, nor Jesus needs to become a Buddhist. They both were treading the same truthful path that lead to G-d. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Spiderman]

Conversion after death

I believe that Buddha was a non-Jewish prophet/messenger of G-d and Jesus was a Jewish prophet/messenger of G-d, they both were in different ages, so they need not to accept one another, by name. I believe that they both are in heaven and are very close to G-d. They both received enlightenment from the same G-d, it is for this, that their teachings and many events have much similarity.
Hence, neither Buddha needs to convert to become a Christian, nor Jesus needs to become a Buddhist. They both were treading the same truthful path that lead to G-d. Right, please?

Regards

I like your views!

 

[paarsurrey]

I like your views!

Thanks and regards

 

[Spiderman]

Thanks and regards

are you Muslim? I'm on a phone so it doesn't show up the part about your religion.

 

[stvdv]

Hence, neither Buddha needs to convert to become a Christian, nor Jesus needs to become a Buddhist. They both were treading the same truthful path that lead to G-d. Right, please?

And IMHO also "neither Buddhists need to convert to become Christians, nor Christians need to become Buddhists. They all are treading the same truthful path that lead to G-d. Right, please?"

 

[paarsurrey]

And IMHO also "neither Buddhists need to convert to become Christians, nor Christians need to become Buddhists. They all are treading the same truthful path that lead to G-d. Right, please?"

There is a difference, Buddha and Jesus got the enlightenment from G-d. With the debris of time, they both have last the pristine Light their founders got from God and brought for their people. This affords a comparative search to find the Truth from one another. One should benefit from it. Right, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

are you Muslim? I'm on a phone so it doesn't show up the part about your religion.

Yes, I am an Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslim. One may like to know about us from:
Islam Ahmadiyya - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website

Regards

 

[stvdv]

There is a difference, Buddha and Jesus got the enlightenment from G-d. With the debris of time, they both have last the pristine Light their founders got from God and brought for their people. This affords a comparative search to find the Truth from one another. One should benefit from it. Right, please?
Regards

Totally agree. One of my favourite quotes from the Yoga Vasistha is "accept the truth even if spoken by a fool, and reject untruth even if spoken by a saint"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Baha'i Faith does respect other religious beliefs, but based on the absolute claim above you do not.

If the Baha'i faith respected other religious beliefs, it wouldn't try to co-opt them.

 

[shunyadragon]

If the Baha'i faith respected other religious beliefs, it wouldn't try to co-opt them.

Your negative view of other people who believe differently negates any objective value in your response, and your ignorance of the Baha'i Faith is outstanding.

The Baha'i Faith does not try and co-opt other religions, because it just teaches the fundamental unity at their base teachings. The other religions consider their differences defining why they think their religion is the only true religion, and all others are false, and often out right condemned.

I was raised a Christian, and later believed in the teachings of Buddha. Becoming a Baha'i did not co-opt my previous beliefs.

 

[stvdv]

The Baha'i Faith does not try and co-opt other religions, because it just teaches the fundamental unity at their base teachings

Very nice, that's what I also understood from reading Bahai teachings