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Converting believers.

Its not a matter of religion, it is a matter of your faith. If you compare the 3 major religions there is really not much difference. The major argument between the religion is if Jesus Christ is God or not. All the religions believe in the Almighty God and to do good deeds through out our lives to enter the Kingdom of God.


If you truly believe in your church remember parts of the church where created by man and in the past the arrogance of men are well documented that is why holy wars happens. The slaugthers of men where done by all sides/religion due to a few men deciding the lives of thier followers. The true enemy is not man itself its satan who clouds our minds and initiate the violence towards each other. At least this is my opinion not my judgement, it is up to God to judge us all.
 

turk179

I smell something....
There are those Christians that really believe that their religion is the one true religion and if they just sit back and relax then millions of good decent people will be going to hell. They try to convert us to save our souls. They try to save us in a kind and loving manor. I really don't have a problem with that other than the fact that I believe it is a waste of time. If we are all a part of the divine duality of nature then why would we need to be saved from that?
But like I said, I don't have a problem with it as long as caring is the number one motivator. What I don't understand is the Christians that get downright angry with you and talk down on anyone that is not a follower of their particular belief system. Someone who comes over to me and gleefully tells me that I am going to burn in hell for all eternity is not a good thing....for either one of us.
 

turk179

I smell something....
For one thing, if I burn in hell forever then there goes my choice of medium well, because if everything is on fire 24/7 then everything must be well done.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
turk179 said:
For one thing, if I burn in hell forever then there goes my choice of medium well, because if everything is on fire 24/7 then everything must be well done.
Good point. I'm a medium-rare kind of guy myself.
 

turk179

I smell something....
turk179 said:
Someone who comes over to me and gleefully tells me that I am going to burn in hell for all eternity is not a good thing....for either one of us.
After rereading this part, it occured to me that this sounded a little threatening. I did not mean it in that way. Only meant it in terms of karma.:)
nutshell said:
I'm a medium-rare kind of guy myself.
I'm ok with that. Just as long as there is some kind of cooking process involved. Fear Factor champ I am not.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
jonny said:
A point about conversion that I don't think has been pointed out yet. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to convert someone to anything and if I try I'm wasting my time. I can convince, debate, and manipulate, but I can't convert. This is where the LDS church has failed in its missionary work. Luckily, the church has recognized this and is making significant changes to its program, but in many ways the damage is already done. The church has grown, but the active membership has stayed the same. In the 90s the focus was on quantity, not quality, of conversions. This is most obvious when the church surveyed recently converted members and found that the #1 reason why they joined the church was because of the members - not the gospel.

Conversion is something that happens in people's hearts because they have a conviction that something is true which motivates them to change their lives. It is a sacred process between an individual and God. As with most things, it helps to have someone assist you with the process, but a missionary should not have a dominant role in any conversion. God should be the focus.
Great post, Jonny. We don't convert people, God does through the Spirit.

Matthew 16:15-17 says, "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."
 

turk179

I smell something....
jonny said:
Conversion is something that happens in people's hearts because they have a conviction that something is true which motivates them to change their lives. It is a sacred process between an individual and God.
Frubals to you.:D
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
I too believe in more than "just an avoidance of hell."

I believe that to be with the Father for eternity means just that. To me, the IS the definition of heaven. That after I am done with whatever life I am supposed to endure here on Earth, I will have been forgiven for all the sins I have committed (there are some doozies :eek: ) and those I will inevitably commit. I believe that because I believe in Jesus as the Christ, no matter what church I attend (if I ever end up "joining" one), He will be the Light that leads me to eternal life with God the Father. I'm so messed up right now that there are days I can't even pray without breaking down. But the little comfort I have is that the Bible (also known as the Word of God :)) tells me that the miniscule, puny, less than a mustard seed faith that I have that He is my salvation and my only path to the only Heaven there is. This bible tells me that my miniscule faith in Him is enough to pardon me from those truly awful sins and grant me eternal life in His Heaven, with Him, in His Glory and Exaltation, at His throne when I'm done here on Earth.

It doesn't specify that I have to attend a specific church to achieve that. It says that I cannot get there by works alone, but that without works, my faith is dead. I don't know what specific works He has in mind for me, but by my faith and the minimal talents He has given me, I do what I can to help the people I can help. Sure it helps that my job puts me in a position to help people, but I now believe that without His help, I probably would not have even been called to this job, much less qualified for it. After all... how many women do any of you know that can pass the physical strength and endurance as well as mental and emotional testing not only to qualify for a paid professional firefighter position, but maintain it for an entire carreer, including promotions? It's not easy for anyone, including volunteers. Sure there are departments where affirmative action rules have enabled more women to be hired but still there are not that many women who can or want to do it as a full time career. But even on my department, where there are no affirmative action hiring rules, and in a state where women in general tend to be more independent and physically stronger than a lot of places, there are less than 5% of the "front line" (firefighter, engineer, captain) positions that are filled by women. I'm not good at the one-on-one doing good for folks like people in the mental health or pastoral or mission type fields. But I think I fill a niche that people need. I'm there on the worst day of their life - they were in a bad car wreck or their house is burning down or a trench collapsed on them. I pray silently for them and physically do whatever it takesto mitigate their situation.

Anyhow, in the emotionally crushed state I have been in for about a year now, there is no possible way I could do this on my own. I also know that with my messed up back (completely blown lumbar disk), I should not be physically able to do this job.

But....

I believe that because I can somehow still have enough faith to pray to the Heavenly Father that I know is watching out for me, He gives me the physical and emotional strength I need to keep doing this work.

I guess in this rambling post, my point is... I do not in any way think this work is going to "get me out of hell" or even "get me into heaven." I believe that because of my faith, I will bewith Him for eternity and that because of my faith, I can do the work He has called me to.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
jonny said:
A point about conversion that I don't think has been pointed out yet. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to convert someone...
I have said this on this board before.

I (or we) cannot convert anyone. All we can do is spread the message ~ it's up to God to change peopes' hearts.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
StewpidLoser said:
I have said this on this board before.

I (or we) cannot convert anyone. All we can do is spread the message ~ it's up to God to change peopes' hearts.
I didn't mean to say that no one has ever said it, I just didn't see it mentioned in this conversation.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
StewpidLoser said:
Sure it helps that my job puts me in a position to help people, but I now believe that without His help, I probably would not have even been called to this job, much less qualified for it. After all... how many women do any of you know that can pass the physical strength and endurance as well as mental and emotional testing not only to qualify for a paid professional firefighter position, but maintain it for an entire carreer, including promotions? It's not easy for anyone, including volunteers. Sure there are departments where affirmative action rules have enabled more women to be hired but still there are not that many women who can or want to do it as a full time career. But even on my department, where there are no affirmative action hiring rules, and in a state where women in general tend to be more independent and physically stronger than a lot of places, there are less than 5% of the "front line" (firefighter, engineer, captain) positions that are filled by women. I'm not good at the one-on-one doing good for folks like people in the mental health or pastoral or mission type fields. But I think I fill a niche that people need. I'm there on the worst day of their life - they were in a bad car wreck or their house is burning down or a trench collapsed on them. I pray silently for them and physically do whatever it takesto mitigate their situation.
Kind of off-topic, I guess, but are you saying you're a firefighter?
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
personally, i think people should just be good people, and then if they are asked about what makes them special or why they are so confident or such a good person, they can talk about God.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
This post was accidentally deleted, but here it is again...

A point about conversion that I don't think has been pointed out yet. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to convert someone to anything and if I try I'm wasting my time. I can convince, debate, and manipulate, but I can't convert. This is where the LDS church has failed in its missionary work. Luckily, the church has recognized this and is making significant changes to its program, but in many ways the damage is already done. The church has grown, but the active membership has stayed the same. In the 90s the focus was on quantity, not quality, of conversions. This is most obvious when the church surveyed recently converted members and found that the #1 reason why they joined the church was because of the members - not the gospel.

Conversion is something that happens in people's hearts because they have a conviction that something is true which motivates them to change their lives. It is a sacred process between an individual and God. As with most things, it helps to have someone assist you with the process, but a missionary should not have a dominant role in any conversion. God should be the focus.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
jonny said:
Conversion is something that happens in people's hearts because they have a conviction that something is true which motivates them to change their lives. It is a sacred process between an individual and God. As with most things, it helps to have someone assist you with the process, but a missionary should not have a dominant role in any conversion. God should be the focus.
:clap Very well said.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Well, Kat, I disagree. There are many 'true' religions. I know what God tells me in my heart. I know that Victor Believes what God tells him in his heart. I know michel, and Dawny and Net Doc and many more believe in what God has told them in their heart, and if you where correct, I'm SURE God would told us to follow a different path. Continued....
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
And by saying that your religion is the only 'true' religion, is saying either God is not speaking to us, or that we are lying, either way is offensive. There are too many problems with all religions to claim to be the sole true religion.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
jgallandt said:
And by saying that your religion is the only 'true' religion, is saying either God is not speaking to us, or that we are lying, either way is offensive. There are too many problems with all religions to claim to be the sole true religion.
Doesn't everyone believe their religion is true? If you don't, what's the point of being a member of the church? Since every religion is slightly different, believing that your church is true is pretty much the same as believing its the only 'true' religion.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Now, back on track. It seems to me that it would be much more productive to try and convert people that have no religion then one's that, even according to you, have already been 'saved'. By attempting to convert someone that is already saved seems to me is showing more interest in trying to increase membership (revenue) then trying to actually 'save' a person's soul. But that's just my opinion.:D
 
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