Converting believers.

[turk179]

Now, back on track. It seems to me that it would be much more productive to try and convert people that have no religion then one's that, even according to you, have already been 'saved'. By attempting to convert someone that is already saved seems to me is showing more interest in trying to increase membership (revenue) then trying to actually 'save' a person's soul. But that's just my opinion.

Darn. I'll have to owe you some frubals for that one. Good point but what if the people that have no religion are happy with what they believe in as well.

 

[Green Gaia]

I didn't say I could prove it. I said I could believe it.

I guess I can't.

 

[SoyLeche]

I guess I can't.

At least we are on the same page now, though.

 

[turk179]

This is a little off topic but I think is worth saying. It has been a very long time since I have seen a debate thread go as civil and friendly as this one has. I wish I could frubal everyone that has participated so far. Hmm, maybe I will try . Either way, congratulations to all of you who have contributed.

 

[michel]

I don't agree. I believe my religion is true for me, but I cannot say what may speak to another. I believe that every religion contains truths about who we are, why we are here and how we ought to live with ourselves and others. I do not believe in only one "true" universal religion for everyone, even my own.

Exactly ( as Jeff also said); my religion, my faith is right for me. I have no right to expect or hope that someone else will want to adopt my thoughts.

 

[turk179]

Darn. All out of frubals . Until tomarrow then .

 

[Quiddity]

How can a half dozen denominations, each teaching slightly (or drastically) different doctrines all be teachings true doctrines, Jeff? It's just not mathematically possible. I'm not saying that if a religion is not 100% true, it's 100% false, but it is a fact that the Roman Catholic Church considers itself to be "the true Church." And I personally admire that in them.

You are correct Katzpur and I agree with you.

~Victor

 

[Katzpur]

Kat, no one church does teach 100% God's teachings. Look at the problems the Catholic church has. Look at the way the Mormon church treated blacks for over 100 years including your prophets and B. Young himself. There is no way you can make me believe that came from God. ALL churches have their problems to iron out, and none of them are perfect. True church? There ain't one.

Jeff,

I'm not saying that the LDS leadership is infallible. I'm 100% positive that none of our prophets have ever claimed that they were. I think they make mistakes. Personally, (and I'm setting myself up for criticism from my fellow Latter-day Saints in saying this) I think that withholding the Priesthood from blacks for so long was one of those mistakes. But that's another topic entirely and I don't want to get off on it now. What I'm trying to say is that LDS policies and procedures may be flawed. I believe our General Authorities are led by the Spirit, but that doesn't mean they are immune from making mistakes or from occasionally demonstrating poor judgment. There is no doubt in my mind that my leaders have been guilty of a great many errors over the past 175 years. But when I say I believe that there can be "a true church," I mean that there can be a Church that is God's authorized organization here on earth, a Church whose leaders He communicates with, and a Church whose official doctrines (not policies and procedures) are 100% true. Even so, those doctrines might not be understood 100% accurately, even by the Church's leadership. Whether this "true Church" is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or the Roman Catholic Church -- or neither of them -- there is no logical reason why there could not be "a true Church" on the earth today. But is it an absolute impossibility that there are many true Churches. There are many Churches that contain great truths, but that's not the same. As a sidelight, I personally believe that the only two Christian churches that could possibly be "the true church" (as I've explained by understanding of that phrase) are yours and mine.

Kathryn

 

[jeffrey]

I agree with about 90% of what your saying, Kat. But my definition of true is 'accurate' and no church is that. Mistakes have been made and will continue to be made. I believe that God will talk to any leader of any church... or anybody who cares to listen. No one church teaches all. If that was true, the church would be mistake free.

 

[nutshell]

What about authority? Did God give authority to certain individuals to act on his behalf on earth? Where are those people now? Do you get this authority by going to a religious seminary or is it something more than this?

 

[jeffrey]

Nutshell, I can't speak for other people. All I can speak for is myself.

 

[Darkdale]

We believe ours is a message that helps bad people become good and good people become better. Is it really so offensive?

Not at all offensive, though I find that a strange ideology. It's just that Heathenism isn't about good people or bad people. It's just about people, about living, about family, about friendship and about courage. We don't preach about moral imperatives and right vs. wrong, and our gods don't punish us for making mistakes. Our gods don't even get angry at us when we do. No angry god. No sin. No punishment. Just life and our love of it.

Being a heathen is about having the courage to live your life and to accept the consequences. Though, the joys of the worldview we tend to keep to ourselves. Most people can't even imagine a worldview that doesn't include sin, eternal punishment or eternal reward.

 

[may]

What about authority? Did God give authority to certain individuals to act on his behalf on earth? Where are those people now? Do you get this authority by going to a religious seminary or is it something more than this?

matthew 24; 45-47
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings................ yes i believe he did apoint a faithful slave on the earth ,and that slave class was given great responsibility

 

[Ulver]

Not at all offensive, though I find that a strange ideology. It's just that Heathenism isn't about good people or bad people. It's just about people, about living, about family, about friendship and about courage. We don't preach about moral imperatives and right vs. wrong, and our gods don't punish us for making mistakes. Our gods don't even get angry at us when we do. No angry god. No sin. No punishment. Just life and our love of it.

Being a heathen is about having the courage to live your life and to accept the consequences. Though, the joys of the worldview we tend to keep to ourselves. Most people can't even imagine a worldview that doesn't include sin, eternal punishment or eternal reward.

For that you can thank Paul's theology dominating Christianity & the actions of Charlemagne and later Catholic evangelists.

NP: Darkthrone- Blaze in The Nothern Sky