Converting to Judaism

[Tomorrows_Child]

I believe that certain Syrian communities don't accept converts. This is not to say that they have refused to accept the concept of converts but that their communities don't convert people. A convert from another community would (I believe) be accepted as Jewish if he moved in.

Maybe I asked the wrong question. I meant, people from outside of the middle eastern community, converting to Judaism, is that accepted by all groups of Jews?

 

[rosends]

Maybe I asked the wrong question. I meant, people from outside of the middle eastern community, converting to Judaism, is that accepted by all groups of Jews?

Converting TO Judaism? Anyone can.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Converting TO Judaism? Anyone can.

Fair enough. It's just that I have met Orthodox Jews who told me they would not accept Jewish converts from other communities i.e. non-Orthodox etc. So, I just wanted to get to know that part a bit better.

 

[rosends]

Fair enough. It's just that I have met Orthodox Jews who told me they would not accept Jewish converts from other communities i.e. non-Orthodox etc. So, I just wanted to get to know that part a bit better.

That refers to accepting people who converted through other non-Orthodox Jewish sects or under the auspices of non-Orthodox rabbinical authorities.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

That refers to accepting people who converted through other non-Orthodox Jewish sects or under the auspices of non-Orthodox rabbinical authorities.

Yes exactly. I actually spoke to an Orthodox Jew about this maybe a year ago, via an inter-faith event organised across universities in London (may have featured non London unis I can't remember). But yeah, he said Jewish converts are not normally accepted from outside their own community of their own synagogues of rabbis. So it's why I wanted to ask the original question.

So, I assume some Jewish sects and communities to openly accept converts from other backgrounds and others do not.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I always did wonder why would a religious group not accept converts anyway? Wouldn't they want more people to relate with?

 

[Tumah]

I always did wonder why would a religious group not accept converts anyway? Wouldn't they want more people to relate with?

Accepting converts is a double edged sword. On the one hand, if a convert fails to uphold his religious requirements (fulfillment of commandments etc.), than he brings down the entire nation another level. Like a body, where every individual limb that is wounded affects the entire body.
On the other hand, if the convert excels at upholding his requirements, than this creates an accusation against born Jews who don't uphold their requirements. Look at how well this guy who has to struggle with everything from scratch is doing compared to you Jew who was born into it and are not even trying.
Both sides create additional accusations for the prosecuting angel in the Heavenly court.

 

[Tumah]

Yes exactly. I actually spoke to an Orthodox Jew about this maybe a year ago, via an inter-faith event organised across universities in London (may have featured non London unis I can't remember). But yeah, he said Jewish converts are not normally accepted from outside their own community of their own synagogues of rabbis. So it's why I wanted to ask the original question.

So, I assume some Jewish sects and communities to openly accept converts from other backgrounds and others do not.

The only community that to my knowledge won't convert non-Jews is the Syrian Orthodox community. But no Orthodox communities will accept converts that were converted through non-Orthodox means, although baring Syrians, they will do conversions.

Edit: Oh never mind, I see rosends already said all this.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

The only community that to my knowledge won't convert non-Jews is the Syrian Orthodox community. But no Orthodox communities will accept converts that were converted through non-Orthodox means, although baring Syrians, they will do conversions.

Edit: Oh never mind, I see rosends already said all this.

The Orthodox community I spoke to was British, not Syrian. But like you said, they will not accept converts via non-Orthodox means, so that covers it. I still find that very odd and alienating really (I'm not a convert btw lol but I mean for certain Jews).

 

[Tumah]

The Orthodox community I spoke to was British, not Syrian. But like you said, they will not accept converts via non-Orthodox means, so that covers it. I still find that very odd and alienating really (I'm not a convert btw lol but I mean for certain Jews).

The immutability of Jewish Law is a primary feature of Orthodox Judaism.

 

[Flankerl]

The problem is that in some communities the convert doesn't learn much which he needs for his Jewish life. It is basically a watered down process which is actually quite sad.

There are Conservative Communities which also don't differ from the Orthodox approach regarding Conversion, but due to the various Conservative Communities which do and Liberal Communities which always do these proper conversions are ignored by the Orthodox.
It has mainly to do with the problem that people don't talk enough with each other but only about others.

 

[Tumah]

The problem is that in some communities the convert doesn't learn much which he needs for his Jewish life. It is basically a watered down process which is actually quite sad.

There are Conservative Communities which also don't differ from the Orthodox approach regarding Conversion, but due to the various Conservative Communities which do and Liberal Communities which always do these proper conversions are ignored by the Orthodox.
It has mainly to do with the problem that people don't talk enough with each other but only about others.

I'm not so familiar with these issues honestly, but I'm under the impression, that since from the Orthodox perspective, Conservative Judaism do not follow the commandments. So an acceptance of the yoke of the commandments (which is required at conversion) by Conservative standards I assume would be problematic from an Orthodox perspective. So I don't understand how it could be possible for Conservative approach would match Orthodox standards. Although again, I'm not involved with these issues whatsoever, so there may be something else here that I don't know about.

 

[Akivah]

The Orthodox community I spoke to was British, not Syrian. But like you said, they will not accept converts via non-Orthodox means, so that covers it. I still find that very odd and alienating really (I'm not a convert btw lol but I mean for certain Jews).

Yes, it is a controversy in Judaism. Israeli Orthodox converts are accepted by everyone. American Orthodox converts are accepted by everyone, except Israeli Orthodox. Conservative converts are accepted by everyone, except all the Orthodox. Reform converts are only accepted by Reform Jews.

 

[Tumah]

Yes, it is a controversy in Judaism. Israeli Orthodox converts are accepted by everyone. American Orthodox converts are accepted by everyone, except Israeli Orthodox. Conservative converts are accepted by everyone, except all the Orthodox. Reform converts are only accepted by Reform Jews.

For the most part, American Orthodox converts are accepted by Israeli Orthodox. I think there is only some discrepancy because the dividing lines in Israel are slightly different than everywhere else. As far as I'm aware, an RCA convert will get a right of return in Israel.

 

[Flankerl]

I'm not so familiar with these issues honestly, but I'm under the impression, that since from the Orthodox perspective, Conservative Judaism do not follow the commandments. So an acceptance of the yoke of the commandments (which is required at conversion) by Conservative standards I assume would be problematic from an Orthodox perspective. So I don't understand how it could be possible for Conservative approach would match Orthodox standards. Although again, I'm not involved with these issues whatsoever, so there may be something else here that I don't know about.

Well nothing is ever the same everywhere. There are Conservative Communities closer to Orthodoxy, some closer to Liberal and some in the middle.

I assure you there are more than a few Conservative Communities where the potential convert learns as much as in an Orthodox Community.

Nothing is ever black and white.

 

[Tumah]

Well nothing is ever the same everywhere. There are Conservative Communities closer to Orthodoxy, some closer to Liberal and some in the middle.

I assure you there are more than a few Conservative Communities where the potential convert learns as much as in an Orthodox Community.

Nothing is ever black and white.

Unless you're dressed like me.

No, I hear you. I'm not really talking about what is learned, as much as what one is required to accept on oneself. Speaking with Levite and even RabbiO, I'm aware that the learning procedure is quite thorough. But the clincher is the actual religious observance. Open Orthodoxy for instance sees to be pretty close if not already at the point where there conversions are not accepted. So in theory it would have to be a Conservative congregation more Orthodox than them. Which although it doesn't seem likely its still possible. Although then one would wonder why they choose to identify as Conservative.

 

[RabbiO]

Reform converts are only accepted by Reform Jews.

That is not exactly accurate.

 

[Akivah]

Well, I didn't mention Reconstructionists RabbiO. I don't know much about them or any other denomination.

 

[RabbiO]

Well, I didn't mention Reconstructionists RabbiO. I don't know much about them or any other denomination.

In a responsa issued in October of 1982 by the Conservative movement's Committee on Jewish Law and Standards of the Rabbinical Assembly, dealing with the status of non-halachic conversions, it was determined that if a Reform rabbi conducts giyyur kehalakhah, the converts are to be accepted as bona fide Jews.

 

[Uniquename]

Hello everyone! I have a question about conversion. Can ritual immersion in water (mikveh) be considered initiation rites for converts?