Convince me that God is loving

[Trailblazer]

If you're content believing in an unloving god then all the power to ya.

It does not matter to me one way or another because I do not need God's love.

 

[nPeace]

I said:
Convince me that God is loving without referring to scriptures that say that.

Is that reasonable?
How can you talk about God without scripture?
If you burn all scripture, you burn history, and solid evidence for God..
The only history you are left with is the annuls from nations you cannot trust.
If you believe those, you would not be demonstrating honesty.

Are you saying the only evidence you are after, is God's voice coming to you, and big invisible arms hugging you?
That might be Satan, so that would not be evidence of God's love.

Hence, nothing would convince you. Correct?
Oh. Wait a minute. It all makes sense now. Remember when I was telling you, you were against the Bible, and siding with atheist... Well, slap my thigh. I knew it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know, ask her. I've had a lot of training in dealing with depressed and suicidal people, and a lot of what she said triggered my response. She is denying it, which I can only accept. I don't doubt that what you said was well meaning, but I can only let you know that it is counter productive to a depressed person. Getting frustrated at her doesn't suggest you want to help her.

I don't need to deny it because there is nothing to deny. I am not clinically depressed. If I was I would have that diagnosis from my counselor. I have anxiety as my diagnosis but it is well managed.

I eat, sleep, work and exercise and my mind is working fine. These are not signs of a depressed person.
A person can be sad for various reasons but that is not the same as clinical depression. I should know since I have an MA in Psychology.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No, I cannot say that I have.

I can believe in God's blessings but what is it necessary to call it love?
Only because scriptures say it is love.

What else would it be?
God doesn't owe us anything.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is that reasonable?
How can you talk about God without scripture?
If you burn all scripture, you burn history, and solid evidence for God..
The only history you are left with is the annuls from nations you cannot trust.
If you believe those, you would not be demonstrating honesty.

I said: Convince me that God is loving without referring to scriptures that say that.
Tell me why I should believe that God is loving.

I did not claim it was a reasonable request, since scriptures are the only was anyone can ever know anything about God.
I just wondered if anyone could do it.

Are you saying the only evidence you are after, is God's voice coming to you, and big invisible arms hugging you?
That might be Satan, so that would not be evidence of God's love.

No, that is not would not be evidence, but neither are the scriptures.
Even if God hugged me that would not be love, since love is not physical.

Hence, nothing would convince you. Correct?
Oh. Wait a minute. It all makes sense now. Remember when I was telling you, you were against the Bible, and siding with atheist... Well, slap my thigh. I knew it.

I did not say that nothing would convince me, but so far nothing has, since nobody has anything but scriptures and personal experiences. That is not evidence that God is loving.

If the Writings of Baha'u'llah don't convince me, the Bible surely won't convince me.

 

[Stevicus]

That is absolutely correct. People believe that God is loving because the scriptures say that and/or because of personal experiences they have had that they attribute to God.

There is no proof that God is loving, it is only a belief.

Ultimately, there's no real proof about anything, even whether there is a god or not. Anything is possible. There could be a god, or perhaps there is a whole pantheon of gods and goddesses. Some might be loving, some might be full of hate, and some might be indifferent. I sometimes wonder if God isn't something like the character of Trelane in the Star Trek episode "The Squire of Gothos." He had godlike powers, and he was from a powerful race, but he was a child - immature and impetuous. I even consider the possibility that "God" may be some alien scientist, and we're just lab rats. Or maybe none of the above.

All religion is really just guessing, and one guess is good as another. We can all guess, but does any of us really, truly know?

Another possibility is that God could be well-meaning, but kind of a bumbler, like Gilligan on Gilligan's Island. He means well, and I guess he's a decent, loving guy, but kind of a klutz. Maybe that's God - or at least the one we humans have.

 

[Trailblazer]

What else would it be?
God doesn't owe us anything.

Blessings are not necessarily love, that is why there are two words.

No, God does not owe us anything, but God not only brings blessings.

Isaiah 45:7 NIRV

I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ultimately, there's no real proof about anything, even whether there is a god or not. Anything is possible. There could be a god, or perhaps there is a whole pantheon of gods and goddesses. Some might be loving, some might be full of hate, and some might be indifferent. I sometimes wonder if God isn't something like the character of Trelane in the Star Trek episode "The Squire of Gothos." He had godlike powers, and he was from a powerful race, but he was a child - immature and impetuous. I even consider the possibility that "God" may be some alien scientist, and we're just lab rats. Or maybe none of the above.

All religion is really just guessing, and one guess is good as another. We can all guess, but does any of us really, truly know?

Another possibility is that God could be well-meaning, but kind of a bumbler, like Gilligan on Gilligan's Island. He means well, and I guess he's a decent, loving guy, but kind of a klutz. Maybe that's God - or at least the one we humans have.

Yes, all these possibilities exist, but every believer believes that their version of God is the right one....
I am just an innocent bystander, I am not taking any sides. Yes, I am a Baha'i, but I have my own ways of thinking.

 

[Jimmy]

It does not matter to me one way or another because I do not need God's love.

Then your good to go.

 

[nPeace]

Don't worry, there is no suicidal ideation. I have had suicidal ideation before so I know what that feels like.
This is just a down in the dumps feeling, not knowing where my life is going to go, if it is ever going to get better.

Trailblazer. Do you want sympathy? Be honest.
I don't think you take the Bible literally, from what you have said before, but are there any lessons you can take from Job?

Not sure if your mind is clear or not, so I'll mention a few lessons I learned.
Job was down in the dumps. I can imagine how miserable he felt, because I have felt similar.
Job even wanted to be extinct.

What I learned from Job, is that even though he lost so much, including his love of helping people, and his friends... his family, he never became bitter against the one person he knew was righteous.
The key words there... He knew.
Job knew that God was real, and he knew that God was just. Knowledge helped Job to maintain his trust in God.

Another example I am thinking of is Joseph.
Joseph was given dreams, which he believed was from God.
Yet, God did not save Joseph from being ill-treated, thrown into a pit, and sold to foreigners... by his own brothers.

Yet, Joseph saw God's hand in his life. If you don't remember, you can read the account again, at Genesis 39.
God did not protect Joseph, from being accused of rape, and being thrown into prison.
If you know the account, every curse against Joseph was turned into a blessing.

It was the same in Job's case. Job was blessed 7 fold.

I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned, but a prime one, for me, is that God may not shield us from every calamity, but we can be sure, the 'curses', won't compare to the blessings.

A key takeaway for me is that knowledge is very important in keeping us from sinking.
Faith follows knowledge, and that doesn't lead to disappointment. Romans 10:13-15; Hebrews 11:6

Not trying to convince you of that. Just saying.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then your good to go.

Yes, if God is not loving it does not matter to me because I do not need God's love.
And if God is loving, God would love me even if I did not believe that.
So I am good to go either way.

 

[Stevicus]

Yes, all these possibilities exist, but every believer believes that their version of God is the right one....
I am just an innocent bystander, I am not taking any sides. Yes, I am a Baha'i, but I have my own ways of thinking.

Yeah, everyone thinks that their belief is the correct one. I don't really take sides either, at least when it comes to arguing about things no one really knows anything about. I confine my arguing to earthbound topics. People can believe whatever they want.

 

[nPeace]

That is absolutely correct. People believe that God is loving because the scriptures say that and/or because of personal experiences they have had that they attribute to God.

There is no proof that God is loving, it is only a belief.

What I said earlier doesn't count?
I believed in God, based on what I was taught. I proved God, based on reality - creation declares God's glory, as Bible writer said, and confirmed.
Then... not personal experience, but evidence around us, built on the previous.
So, it's more than scripture, and personal experience. Am I talking to an atheist?

The scriptures only say what is true, which we can both see for ourselves, and check and verify for ourselves.
Romans 1:19-20; Psalms 19:1

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer. Do you want sympathy? Be honest.

No, the very last thing I want is sympathy. I just had to explain my real situation since people were saying I am depressed.

I don't think you take the Bible literally, from what you have said before, but are there any lessons you can take from Job?

Not sure if your mind is clear or not, so I'll mention a few lessons I learned.
Job was down in the dumps. I can imagine how miserable he felt, because I have felt similar.
Job even wanted to be extinct.

What I learned from Job, is that even though he lost so much, including his love of helping people, and his friends... his family, he never became bitter against the one person he knew was righteous.
The key words there... He knew.
Job knew that God was real, and he knew that God was just. Knowledge helped Job to maintain his trust in God.

Another example I am thinking of is Joseph.
Joseph was given dreams, which he believed was from God.
Yet, God did not save Joseph from being ill-treated, thrown into a pit, and sold to foreigners... by his own brothers.

Yet, Joseph saw God's hand in his life. If you don't remember, you can read the account again, at Genesis 39.
God did not protect Joseph, from being accused of rape, and being thrown into prison.
If you know the account, every curse against Joseph was turned into a blessing.

It was the same in Job's case. Job was blessed 7 fold.

I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned, but a prime one, for me, is that God may not shield us from every calamity, but we can be sure, the 'curses', won't compare to the blessings.

A key takeaway for me is that knowledge is very important in keeping us from sinking.
Faith follows knowledge, and that doesn't lead to disappointment. Romans 10:13-15; Hebrews 11:6

Not trying to convince you of that. Just saying.

Job is just a story used to make some points. Not everyone has his experience. It all depends upon the person as to whether the curses outweigh the blessings. All humans have different experiences and life is not over till the curtain call comes.

I am not bitter or angry at God. I used to be but that was years ago. I question whether God is loving but that is a different matter, and the fact that I am questioning it means I want to know the truth. I think God knows that since God knows everything. I have already had an epiphany as to why I might not believe God is loving, so this thread has served a purpose.

 

[rational experiences]

A human says humans are living mutual equal.

Yet it's a man who took an authoritarian position who said it.

Makes a commentary enough times reviewing all natural terms you'd end up in mind believing you are a or the actual authoritarian.

A basic human teaching. Who says I'm the messenger who writes advice about human behaviours being wrong.

Not living mutual. Then I the human man still self idolate after.

Basic human review.

Our parents existed closest bio type to a monkey. Can't go past the monkey body we'd be totally non existent as a human. If you theoried it.

Pretty basic human advised.

You're born. You see inequality. You can reference written past human records. You realise human behaviour changed. You realise hearing voice is involved in brain changes.

So you research the brain changes is by heavenly conditions. Yet your life is created by human sex.

Human behaviour changed. Now instead of living sharing with nature mutually. We've become self destructive and lying humanity.

Owning a histiry of inhumane choices. Lots of civilisations decimated before us.

Basic self advice.

So today you have men and women now exerting authoritarian instead of mutual family relationship partnerships behaviours.

Two of them. Once it was just men.

Who build machines claiming the design machine to reaction machine I push buttons. I will invent the presence a human theoried as the design resource electricity within in side a machine.

Then they argue...no I'm copying it via the heavens. But I'm doing it myself. Two humans adult claim human parents.

Conscious mind know in science terms first two humans now skeletal dusts.

From dusts above star sun mass. Thoughts know that dust type combusted humans below to ashes.

Evil humans bible writer about dusts and ashes...God does it to you. I'm not guilty. All said using a human mind.

Oh who are you then? Oh the aliens inside the sun machine star mass. So you weren't born by human sex then basic question?

They however use a whole lot of satanisms as science.

Is the behaviour of how civilisation before us was destroyed.

 

[samtonga43]

I did not expect anyone to convince me. I just thought it would be fun watching people try.

Hmm, this is very telling, in my opinion. Here is someone who asks posters on an internet forum to convince her that God is loving.
Then she says that she did not expect any of us to be able to do this.
So why did she ask us?
It would, she says, be fun to watch us try.
But what has happened now, Dear Reader? Well, it seems to be no longer 'fun'; she is sick of all these posts responding to her requests, and trying to help her by offering opinions and advice.
She has reached a conclusion. She doesn't know whether God is loving or not loving.
Tb, if you are content with this, why do you ask to be convinced otherwise? Oh, for 'fun', of course. I forgot about the 'fun'. Silly me!

You are free to believe anything you want to believe, if it makes you feel good.

As are you, my friend. But you don't give the impression that you 'feel good'.

There is no loss. I don't need an imaginary friend, I need real friends.

Do you mean this, Tb? REALLY mean it?
Here is some advice which I hope you will at least think about: real friends can be found in the real world. Not in Internet Land.
Think about getting out of the house and away from internet groups, join, in real life, a group of people with similar interests and interact with them, face to face. Get involved in some voluntary activity; you will help yourself by helping others. Do something about your situation, Tb.

Do it for you.

 

[Trailblazer]

What I said earlier doesn't count?
I believed in God, based on what I was taught. I proved God, based on reality - creation declares God's glory, as Bible writer said, and confirmed.

There is good and bad in creation, that is the problem. Christians and Baha'is only want to look at the good, but that is illogical.

Then... not personal experience, but evidence around us, built on the previous.
So, it's more than scripture, and personal experience. Am I talking to an atheist?

No you are talking to a believer who wants to know the truth, rather than just believing I know.
What you see around you is subject to your interpretation. I interpret it differently because I am a different person.

The scriptures only say what is true, which we can both see for ourselves, and check and verify for ourselves.
Romans 1:19-20; Psalms 19:1

The problem is that the scriptures say all kinds of things, and many are contradictory.
Even if you check and verify, what you see will be subject to your interpretation.

 

[nPeace]

so far nothing has, since nobody has anything but scriptures and personal experiences.

I did present something more than scripture. You said nothing on it.

 

[nPeace]

No, the very last thing I want is sympathy. I just had to explain my real situation since people were saying I am depressed.

Job is just a story used to make some points. Not everyone has his experience. It all depends upon the person as to whether the curses outweigh the blessings. All humans have different experiences and life is not over till the curtain call comes.

I am not bitter or angry at God. I used to be but that was years ago. I question whether God is loving but that is a different matter, and the fact that I am questioning it means I want to know the truth. I think God knows that since God knows everything. I have already had an epiphany as to why I might not believe God is loving, so this thread has served a purpose.

Did you get any points from Job? Care to share?

 

[Trailblazer]

I did present something more than scripture. You said nothing on it.

Yes, you presented personal opinions about what you see in the world and how you interpret that, but that does not convince me that God is loving.