Convince me that the US healthcare system is good

[Estro Felino]

And it's not just insurance companies, it is the system that runs like a for-profit business, and little government intervention.

About 15 years ago one of the members of Beliefnet (an online debate forum much like this one) shared that her husband had been diagnosed with ALS. Her name is Lynn. They were both in their mid 40's, and she had to start taking care of him. He lost his job and insurance, but she still worked as a nurse and he was covered through her insurance. ALS has no cure, and it depends how long a person lives, so the care is very time consuming as the disease progresses.

After about a year she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She ended up losing her job and insurance because the treatment were so taxing. They lived in Florida and the ACA was just coming out. Florida did NOT join the Medicaid expansion. They had to sell their house, which they did not have a lot of equity since they were young and mortgages tend to require more interest payments and principle later in the terms. They had invitation to move to a state where there was medicaid, but they were both too sick to move.

After several years of more and more debt he died, and she was able to recover from cancer. She had to file for bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is no walk in the park. Generally a person has to liquidate all valuable assets, and can only keep basic things. A car can't be too new or valuable. The filers have to hire lawyers and that costs at least a few thousand that folks don't have. Bankruptcy courts might demand a person pay off certain debt over time, and this will prevent them from being able to recover from the bad luck life imposed on them. Life in the "greatest nation on earth". Do you feel lucky?

She is still alive but all this bad luck is just the lottery of life in a nation where healthcare is a business, not a system that actually helps offset these situations.

I am speechless. I don't know what to say.
I think that the Americans should understand that Europeans love them. Europeans wonder: "why don't Americans look at Europe, when it deals with healthcare?".

Americans should know they deserve public healthcare because health is a right.
Otherwise life becomes meaningless.

 

[F1fan]

If the US has the billions to waste on useless wars in some underdeveloped country, it means it has the billions to fund a National Health Service.
Not on a federal level. On local level: each state diversifies their NHS.
Of course the California NHS will probably be more efficient than the Missouri NHS. But at least all citizens will have transparency and will afford necessary medical treatments and surgeries.

Ask republicans.

There have been many attempts to fix our healthcare system but republicans have been notoriously opposed to changes. They tried to eliminate the ACA over 70 times, why? And their alternative propsals were so bad that even some republicans rejected them.

The ACA ended up being a messy bit of legislation that didn't fix many problems. That was the mistake the democrats made in 2009/10 when the ACA was being submitted was accepting republican amendments. The compromises only made the law less effective and more convoluted. It ended up being a failure, if and if anyone remembers it had to undergo m,any reform bills to fix problems. By then the republicans were in the majority and they refused to pass certain fixes. The original bill was actually prettty good, but it was sabotaged. Many republicans who filed amendments did not vote to the ACA after they were accepted. Bad faith.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

In the U.S. there is universal access for emergency health care regardless of ability of pay.

And yet the resulting bill (or exorbitantly expensive ambulance ride) often has people wondering "is this gas or appendicitis? Can I ignore this because I can't afford the debt?"

 

[Estro Felino]

Ask republicans.

There have been many attempts to fix our healthcare system but republicans have been notoriously opposed to changes. They tried to eliminate the ACA over 70 times, why? And their alternative propsals were so bad that even some republicans rejected them.

The ACA ended up being a messy bit of legislation that didn't fix many problems. That was the mistake the democrats made in 2009/10 when the ACA was being submitted was accepting republican amendments. The compromises only made the law less effective and more convoluted. It ended up being a failure, if and if anyone remembers it had to undergo m,any reform bills to fix problems. By then the republicans were in the majority and they refused to pass certain fixes. The original bill was actually prettty good, but it was sabotaged. Many republicans who filed amendments did not vote to the ACA after they were accepted. Bad faith.

The only way is that Medical Associations (of physicians and nurses) rebel, and unite to found some centers where they provide with basic medical assistance for free (or with affordable prices). That is, it's them that they have to push the local governments to abolish privatized healthcare.
It's them who have the power.
Did they study medicine because they adore money or because they love healing the sick?

I would have studied medicine, because I am an altruistic person, when it comes with helping others.
But I was not that good at biology and chemistry, and my memory was more apt to study laws and codes.

I am afraid that it's physicians who want healthcare to remain private so they can become rich, thanks to private insurances and medical bills.

 

[F1fan]

And yet the resulting bill (or exorbitantly expensive ambulance ride) often has people wondering "is this gas or appendicitis? Can I ignore this because I can't afford the debt?"

Let me tell you about my ambulance ride.

It was part of a previous post where I mentioned I was hit head on by a car while on a training bike ride. I was rattled but not seriously hurt. The ambulance showed up and the EMTs didn't ask me any questions. They got the back board out and strapped me to it. Not comfortable. I was put in the ambulance and we went for about 5 miles. Rough ride. These things are just trucks with medical equipment inside. The driver was backing into the ER and ran over a curb so me and the two EMTs were tossed around the back like dice on a craps table. I may have survived being hit by a car but will I survive the ambulance ride? I was lucid and never lost consciousness. They wanted to give me an IV and I said no. They thought I was in shock so asked me questions like who the president was. I said Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt. They didn't get my humor. I had to clarify it was Obama, the first black president.

The bill was about $565. I gotta say I was pretty disappointed with the crude nature of ambulances in the USA.

 

[F1fan]

The only way is that Medical Associations (of physicians and nurses) rebel, and unite to found some centers where they provide with basic medical assistance for free (or with affordable prices). That is, it's them that they have to push the local governments to abolish privatized healthcare.
It's them who have the power.
Did they study medicine because they adore money or because they love healing the sick?

I would have studied medicine, because I am an altruistic person, when it comes with helping others.
But I was not that good at biology and chemistry, and my memory was more apt to study laws and codes.

I am afraid that it's physicians who want healthcare to remain private so they can become rich, thanks to private insurances and medical bills.

Hospitals in the USA are either for-profit or non-profit. Many are going out of business in the USA, especially in rural areas. The irony, these rural areas are mostly republican voting. There is a financial crisis and what solutions do republicans offer? Let nature run its course. Some of these closures came out of the pandemic, which was of course during the Trump administration.

19 hospital closures, bankruptcies in 2022

Hospitals are busier than ever — and going out of business

 

[Estro Felino]

Hospitals in the USA are either for-profit or non-profit. Many are going out of business in the USA, especially in rural areas. The irony, these rural areas are mostly republican voting. There is a financial crisis and what solutions do republicans offer? Let nature run its course.

19 hospital closures, bankruptcies in 2022

Hospitals are busier than ever — and going out of business

It's also a matter of employment.
If a person has the medical vocation, the State has the duty (the obligation) to make them study, and to hire them as soon as they graduate.
That's what a State should do. So they have an assured job in some public facility like hospital or ER.

 

[Estro Felino]

Hospitals in the USA are either for-profit or non-profit. Many are going out of business in the USA, especially in rural areas. The irony, these rural areas are mostly republican voting. There is a financial crisis and what solutions do republicans offer? Let nature run its course. Some of these closures came out of the pandemic, which was of course during the Trump administration.

19 hospital closures, bankruptcies in 2022

Hospitals are busier than ever — and going out of business

I don't want to be judgmental, but what I have never watched in my life is TV shows set in hospital like Dr House, Grey's Anatomy, etc...
Because I don't like how there is this enormous chasm that separates physician from patient (not to mention nurse from patient, even worse). In the US hospitals, I mean.
I have been hospitalized just a couple of times in my life, but I have found so much love. So much, so much love in a hospital. Even if it was not the most equipped hospital in the world...but who cares?

 

[Shaul]

Thousands of dollars for an ambulance ride?

Why not? Staffing an expensive vehicle filled with highly specialized trained personnel and equipment ready to respond 24/7 is a valuable service which takes money. There's no free lunch. Also there are lower alternatives such as alternative transportation and using closer urgent care clinics. Furthermore there are insurance policies that cover ambulance costs.

In the U.S. you can choose how you get to the medical facility. It can be as low cost as free government transport, which is more widely available than you would think, or a high priced medical helicopter.

Again, choices.

 

[Shaul]

It's also a matter of employment.
If a person has the medical vocation, the State has the duty (the obligation) to make them study, and to hire them as soon as they graduate.
That's what a State should do. So they have an assured job in some public facility like hospital or ER.

In your opinion. I don't agree.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why not? Staffing an expensive vehicle filled with highly specialized trained personnel and equipment ready to respond 24/7 is a valuable service which takes money. There's no free lunch. Also there are lower alternatives such as alternative transportation and using closer urgent care clinics. Furthermore there are insurance policies that cover ambulance costs.

In the U.S. you can choose how you get to the medical facility. It can be as low cost as free government transport, which is more widely available than you would think, or a high priced medical helicopter.

Again, choices.

It's not credible that an ambulance ride of 1 km costs thousands of dollars. Are medical staff paid hundreds of dollars a hour?

 

[Shaul]

There's a lot more involved than just emergency care, especially when long-term maladies are involved.

There are also programs available for free or low cost preventative and long-term malady care.

 

[Shaul]

It's not credible that an ambulance ride of 1 km costs thousands of dollars. Are medical staff paid hundred of dollars a hour?

It isn't just the cost of the medical staff, although that is quite a cost too. For example, a single ambulance vehicle can cost $325,000 or more.

"Thousands of dollars" is not representative of the cost of an ambulance ride. The average cost is $1200. There is insurance available which covers ambulances for as low as $25 per month.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Of course. As the insurance companies must pay their shareholders. The states and the courts have been trying to chip away at our health care. There was a time when one could not buy insurance if any pre-existent health problem. Kids were automatically drop from parents insurance at 18yrs old, now its 26. Politicians continue the attempt to strike it down altogether through the courts.

It's where the problems lay and why things are made expensive. The art of price gouging.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It isn't just the cost of the medical staff, although that is quite a cost too. For example, a single ambulance vehicle can cost $325,000 or more.

"Thousands of dollars" is not representative of the cost of an ambulance ride. The average cost is $1200. There is insurance available which covers ambulances for as low as $25 per month.

In New York it's typically 5 grand or more. I got the bill.

 

[metis]

There are also programs available for free or low cost preventative and long-term malady care.

Which are badly underfunded plus omitting certain services because of cost. I know as I've checked it out for someone dear to us.

There simply is no moral reason whatsoever to not provide basic healthcare for all without causing roughly 70+% of all personal bankruptcies here in the States. That's of course assuming that money is not more important than Americans in need as with so many in the right wing.

 

[Shaul]

And yet the resulting bill (or exorbitantly expensive ambulance ride) often has people wondering "is this gas or appendicitis? Can I ignore this because I can't afford the debt?"

Such people made a bunch of ill-advised choices. Everyone should anticipate they would need health coverage sooner or later and plan for it. The problem isn't that someone could not afford it. The problem is they certainly could afford it if they planned better and made better choices, but they didn't.

 

[Shaul]

Which are badly underfunded plus omitting certain services because of cost. I know as I've checked it out for someone dear to us.

There simply is no moral reason whatsoever to not provide basic healthcare for all without causing roughly 70+% of all personal bankruptcies here in the States. That's of course assuming that money is not more important than Americans in need as with so many in the right wing.

No they aren't badly funded. The poorest can get federally subsidized health insurance that covers both emergency and routine health care at no cost to them.

 

[metis]

The problem is they certainly could afford it if they planned better and made better choices, but they didn't.

That's nothing short of condescending nonsense. We have poverty here and it's certainly not all caused by the "they" not "planning better".

 

[metis]

No they aren't badly funded. The poorest can get federally subsidized health insurance that covers both emergency and routine health care at no cost to them.

Again, you're just inventing such nonsense, thus making them victims again.

Again, I've looked into this is detail as I previously posted, so any concept that there's somehow relatively equal treatment regardless of income is so far off base! Emergency care yes, there's help, but try and get long-term care and see what you come up with.