Convince me that the world isn't overpopulated

[Estro Felino]

Alexandra Paul has always been wonderful at explaining how this is a problem.
And it's not a matter of space. The spaces are borderless. The problem is resources, since so many lands are unproductive and 8 billion people is an unsustainable number.
And besides that, world overpopulation has been causing nothing but social inequalities and maldistribution of wealth.

And the shocking thing is that when I was born, world population was 4 billion.
Now it has doubled. It has reached 8 billion, and I am still young. Almost all of my former classmates are childless.
And they have no intention of making babies. Not only because of the uncertainty of the future...but because they don't want kids that will have to live in a nightmarish, overpopulated world.
I also advise people that being child-free is better, and they yell at me, telling I am wrong. Since the West is the one which is going through a birth rates collapse, and that it's other continents which should decrease their birth rates.
But the truth is that the future kids will have to face overwhelming immigration, and the discomfort of an overpopulated world.
So...we should think of their future.

Birth rates

 

[Estro Felino]

I can change my mind...I am open to that.
But I need valid arguments.

 

[Shaul]

Overpopulation is not a problem. We already have the knowledge and resources necessary to feed a population of 8 billion people. Indeed we could feed over 10 billion just using existing technologies and in a sustained manner. In addition malnutrition has been and will continue to drop. Humanity is on the cusp of a new golden age of plenty.

 

[Stevicus]

Alexandra Paul has always been wonderful at explaining how this is a problem.
And it's not a matter of space. The spaces are borderless. The problem is resources, since so many lands are unproductive and 8 billion people is an unsustainable number.
And besides that, world overpopulation has been causing nothing but social inequalities and maldistribution of wealth.

And the shocking thing is that when I was born, world population was 4 billion.
Now it has doubled. It has reached 8 billion, and I am still young. Almost all of my former classmates are childless.
And they have no intention of making babies. Not only because of the uncertainty of the future...but because they don't want kids that will have to live in a nightmarish, overpopulated world.
I also advise people that being child-free is better, and they yell at me, telling I am wrong. Since the West is the one which is going through a birth rates collapse, and that it's other continents which should decrease their birth rates.
But the truth is that the future kids should have to face overwhelming immigration, and the discomfort of an overpopulated world.
So...we should think of their future.


View attachment 83178

Birth rates

I recall back when I was a kid, there were many who were concerned about overpopulation - among many other concerns about the environment and the direction the planet was taking.

I didn't watch the entire video above, but it starts with her talking about those commercials for various agencies which would send food aid to famine-ridden areas. Usually, they would show heartbreaking footage of children suffering from malnutrition and starvation, in a desperate plea for people to send their money to help. And many people did help and continue to help.

Sam Kinison had some words about that in his stand-up routine:

Spoiler: Language

But his point was for people to "move where the food is." The world already produces enough food to feed the population, but it's unevenly distributed. People living in areas of food scarcity - many of them are trying to do just that, "move to where the food is." That's what fuels a lot of the migration we see going on, as millions are going to where the food is.

In the map showing population growth rates, it appears that the bluer areas are the more developed industrial societies, while the other areas are lesser developed where industries were pushed (forced) more towards single commodities, which created the kind of economic chaos and inability for many of these countries to feed themselves. There are other contributory factors, although the legacy of damage left over by colonialism is still with us today.

The aid from the West has helped to a large degree. By sending more food, the populations were fed, and then grew, just as Malthus' theories on population growth would indicate. A natural equilibrium between food production and population growth.

 

[Estro Felino]

Overpopulation is not a problem. We already have the knowledge and resources necessary to feed a population of 8 billion people. Indeed we could feed over 10 billion just using existing technologies and in a sustained manner. In addition malnutrition has been and will continue to drop. Humanity is on the cusp of a new golden age of plenty.

I understand your point.
The problem is time. The pace of those births in those countries.
I linked a map so you can all see the enormous gap between the birth rates in the West and those in Africa.

It takes time to create social equality and welfare and sustainable growth.
We have run out of time.

I am a staunch believer of climate change...I mean, the climate change is due to the unprecedented presence of human activities needed to support 8 billion people. Unprecedented in 4 billions of Earth age.

 

[Quintessence]

Does the speaker talk about the ecological ramifications or do they not care about or consider the greater-than-human world and the needs of all biodiversity? Just curious.

 

[Estro Felino]

Does the speaker talk about the ecological ramifications or do they not care about or consider the greater-than-human world and the needs of all biodiversity? Just curious.

Of course.
It's just a 8 minutes video. Worth watching.

 

[ChristineM]

If everyone on earth was brought together and stood shoulder to shoulder they would take up less space than is available on the isle of white.

Over population isn't the real problem. The need for resources that humans claim and are becoming scarce is the problem.

 

[Jimmy]

Eh, lord has other plans imo

 

[Quintessence]

Over population isn't the real problem. The need for resources that humans claim and are becoming scarce is the problem.

So... just to remind you and others here, overpopulation is defined as a state where the number of organisms in a given area exceeds the carrying capacity (aka, resource availability to sustain a population) of its environment. Overpopulation by definition is an unsustainable draw on an environment's resources.

 

[Wu Wei]

If everyone on earth was brought together and stood shoulder to shoulder they would take up less space than is available on the isle of white.

View attachment 83187


Over population isn't the real problem. The need for resources that humans claim and are becoming scarce is the problem.

Although I agree with what you say as to what the problem is...... the Isle of Wight is about 147 square miles, there are a bit of 8,000,000,000 people on earth..... that comes to approximately a bit over 54,000,000 people per square mile on the island of Wight..... maybe if we stack them

 

[ChristineM]

Although I agree with what you say as to what the problem is...... the Isle of Wight is about 147 square miles, there are a bit of 8,000,000,000 people on earth..... that comes to approximately a bit over 54,000,000 people per square mile on the island of Wight..... maybe if we stack them

You were almost correct, the isle of white is using old data. So now some people will get their feet wet when the tide comes in.


Here is a quick rough and ready approximation (and more up to date) from Quora...

On average, each human will take up 18 inches from shoulder to shoulder
I am using 5 inches for length from front to back
There are 7,586,018,181 people in world right now
18 inches is 1.5 feet/5 inches is 0.416667 feet
1.5 feet is 0.5 yards/0.416667 feet is 0.138889 yards
0.5 yards is 0.000284091 miles/0.138889 yards is 0.00007891420455 miles
0.000284091 miles * 0.00007891420455 miles= 0.000000022418815 square miles
0.000000022418815 square miles * 7,586,018,181 people = 170.069538186 square miles

So an island with 23 square miles of land than the isle of white... So how about Curacao?

 

[Valjean]

Overpopulation is not a problem. We already have the knowledge and resources necessary to feed a population of 8 billion people. Indeed we could feed over 10 billion just using existing technologies and in a sustained manner. In addition malnutrition has been and will continue to drop. Humanity is on the cusp of a new golden age of plenty.

But how would we retain the biodiversity we, the biosphere and climate depend on? Where and how would the other species live?
You talk of possibilities, but look at the reality. Polluted air, water and oceans. Depleted aquifers, topsoil, and oil reserves. Melting glaciers and depleted snowpack that sustain the great rivers that feed most of the world's human population. Billions living hand-to-mouth.
Consider the immigration problems around the world, and the political backlashes. Would there be these great migrations if their regions' populations hadn't exceeded their political and resource carrying capacity?

 

[Wu Wei]

You were almost correct, the isle of white is using old data. So now some people will get their feet wet when the tide comes in.


Here is a quick rough and ready approximation (and more up to date) from Quora...

On average, each human will take up 18 inches from shoulder to shoulder
I am using 5 inches for length from front to back
There are 7,586,018,181 people in world right now
18 inches is 1.5 feet/5 inches is 0.416667 feet
1.5 feet is 0.5 yards/0.416667 feet is 0.138889 yards
0.5 yards is 0.000284091 miles/0.138889 yards is 0.00007891420455 miles
0.000284091 miles * 0.00007891420455 miles= 0.000000022418815 square miles
0.000000022418815 square miles * 7,586,018,181 people = 170.069538186 square miles

So an island with 23 square miles of land than the isle of white... So how about Curacao?

That could work

 

[Valjean]

If everyone on earth was brought together and stood shoulder to shoulder they would take up less space than is available on the isle of white.

View attachment 83187


Over population isn't the real problem. The need for resources that humans claim and are becoming scarce is the problem.

We are not the only species on Earth, and other species need Lebensraum. They don't have the cultural flexibility to move into high-rise apartments and import food. Our numbers and acquisition of resources, even if not actually living next to them, are driving them to extinction.

The planet's biosphere, climate, chemistry and ability to sustain life depend on a healthy biodiversity. It's an intricate, interdependent mechanism. You cant just pull pieces out of a Swiss watch or automobile and expect it to continue functioning.

 

[Wu Wei]

We are not the only species on Earth, and other species need Lebensraum. They don't have the cultural flexibility to move into high-rise apartments and import food. Our numbers and acquisition of resources, even if not actually living next to them, are driving them to extinction.

The planet's biosphere, climate, chemistry and ability to sustain life depend on a healthy biodiversity. It's an intricate, interdependent mechanism. You cant just pull pieces out of a Swiss watch or automobile and expect it to continue functioning.

But if we all move to one island and leave the rest for them.... as Covid quarantines proved, several species rebound nicely when humans aren't around to mess things up

 

[Stevicus]

But if we all move to one island and leave the rest for them.... as Covid quarantines proved, several species rebound nicely when humans aren't around to mess things up

So, we should all move to the Isle of Wight? Isn't it kind of cold and drizzly there most of the time?

 

[Valjean]

In the past. During the period of evolution that created our anatomy and psychology, we lived in small bands of coöperative, interdependent, hunter-gatherers. Our survival depended on maintaining a viable population, and mortality rates were high.

We no longer live in small bands, and mortality is low; nor do we live gentle on the land. Our resource demand is massive.
This is not sustainable. We're already way beyond the planet's carrying capacity. Resources are diminishing, and becoming more difficult and hazardous to acquire. The planet's carrying capacity is diminishing even as our population is increasing.

I predict wars, famine, mass migrations, political unrest, and ecological collapse.

 

[Valjean]

But if we all move to one island and leave the rest for them.... as Covid quarantines proved, several species rebound nicely when humans aren't around to mess things up

Of course! We could all sustain ourselves happily in just a few square meters of space, and leave the rest of the planet undisturbed.
Why didn't I think of that?

 

[ChristineM]

So, we should all move to the Isle of Wight? Isn't it kind of cold and drizzly there most of the time?

We decided that in this modern day and age with close on 8 billon peeps that the isle of White would sink with the weight. The best choice now is Curacao, it should be a bit warmer