Convince me that the world isn't overpopulated

[Stevicus]

I predict wars, famine, mass migrations, political unrest, and ecological collapse.

I think the future predicted in Soylent Green might be possible, unfortunately. Although it reminds me of the opening theme of that movie, which shows the slow progression of how we got to this point. A quick story of the last 200 years in pictures.

 

[Stevicus]

We decided that in this modern day and age with close on 8 billon peeps that the isle of White would sink with the weight. The best choice now is Curacao, it should be a bit warmer

Oh, that sounds much better, with nice tropical weather. But I don't think there are enough hotel rooms to accommodate everyone, so some will have to sleep outside.

I've also heard the same comparisons about all the people in the world being able to fit inside the Grand Canyon.

 

[sayak83]

So, we should all move to the Isle of Wight? Isn't it kind of cold and drizzly there most of the time?

Let's do this folks. Everyone move to isle of Wight now .... where ever it is.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think the future predicted in Soylent Green might be possible, unfortunately. Although it reminds me of the opening theme of that movie, which shows the slow progression of how we got to this point. A quick story of the last 200 years in pictures.

In my opinion, it all revolves around the lack of foresightedness.

People consider themselves eternal and hate death. They don't want to die and delude themselves that death doesn't exist.

That is why they believe everything is eternal: resources, spaces, etc..etc..

My generation is called the childless generation. We Millennials are the childless generation; just think that in the last high school reunion, only 5 out of 25 classmates had children, I found out. Five out of 25.
In a decade most female classmates will undergo menopause...so it's a definitive number.

Our generation has been inculcated since youth that the world was overpopulated, that the world was filled with so many problems.
The mere idea of creating babies that will have to live in this nightmarish world...terrifies us.
It terrifies me.

We are the most spiritual generation because we were raised to think that matter is ephemeral and that only spirit remains.
Millennials see sex not as a procreation, but as spiritual experience.

 

[ChristineM]

Oh, that sounds much better, with nice tropical weather. But I don't think there are enough hotel rooms to accommodate everyone, so some will have to sleep outside.

I've also heard the same comparisons about all the people in the world being able to fit inside the Grand Canyon.

I believe that in the grand canyon they would be able to lie down and stretch out.

I can go better. Take all the space out of every atom in every human beings body and the resulting super dense mass if neutrons, protons and electrons would fit in a space the size of a sugar xube.

 

[ChristineM]

Let's do this folks. Everyone move to isle of Wight now .... where ever it is.

South coast of England

 

[Estro Felino]

In the past. During the period of evolution that created our anatomy and psychology, we lived in small bands of coöperative, interdependent, hunter-gatherers. Our survival depended on maintaining a viable population, and mortality rates were high.

We no longer live in small bands, and mortality is low; nor do we live gentle on the land. Our resource demand is massive.
This is not sustainable. We're already way beyond the planet's carrying capacity. Resources are diminishing, and becoming more difficult and hazardous to acquire. The planet's carrying capacity is diminishing even as our population is increasing.

I predict wars, famine, mass migrations, political unrest, and ecological collapse.

Our lifestyle depends on electricity.
Warm water, cooking, etc...etc...
So electricity is a finite resource. Power is produced by fuels that will run out.
And they are destroying all forests...because there is more and more need of arable lands, and because they need more and more wood and its derivatives.

 

[Estro Felino]

But how would we retain the biodiversity we, the biosphere and climate depend on? Where and how would the other species live?
You talk of possibilities, but look at the reality. Polluted air, water and oceans. Depleted aquifers, topsoil, and oil reserves. Melting glaciers and depleted snowpack that sustain the great rivers that feed most of the world's human population. Billions living hand-to-mouth.
Consider the immigration problems around the world, and the political backlashes. Would there be these great migrations if their regions' populations hadn't exceeded their political and resource carrying capacity?

Maybe we should make all animal species go extinct to make people realize how destructive the human presence on this planet is.

They won't understand it, if we don't.

 

[Wu Wei]

So, we should all move to the Isle of Wight? Isn't it kind of cold and drizzly there most of the time?

No, that would be silly, we won't all fit..... I'm thinking Greenland

 

[Wu Wei]

Of course! We could all sustain ourselves happily in just a few square meters of space, and leave the rest of the planet undisturbed.
Why didn't I think of that?

I have no idea why you didn't think of that, I have always felt the planet would be a great place, if it wasn't for all the people

 

[Stevicus]

In my opinion, it all revolves around the lack of foresightedness.

People consider themselves eternal and hate death. They don't want to die and delude themselves that death doesn't exist.

That is why they believe everything is eternal: resources, spaces, etc..etc..

My generation is called the childless generation. We Millennials are the childless generation; just think that in the last high school reunion, only 5 out of 25 classmates had children, I found out. Five out of 25.
In a decade most female classmates will undergo menopause...so it's a definitive number.

Our generation has been inculcated since youth that the world was overpopulated, that the world was filled with so many problem.
The mere idea of creating babies that will have to live in this nightmarish world...terrifies us.
It terrifies me.

We are the most spiritual generation because we were raised to think that matter is ephemeral and that only spirit remains.
Millennials see sex not as a procreation, but as spiritual experience.

I'm technically a Boomer, though close to the cusp with Generation X, so I could probably identify with either one, at least in terms of shared cultural observations one might have while growing up at the same time.

I can see that, at the beginning of the industrial revolution (which was also a time the entire planet was being explored), it probably seemed like it was a land of plenty. There was all kinds of wealth out there to mine or grow in accommodating climates. The world population was still relatively low, so a lot of land lay open and seemingly unused.

But by the time we reached the middle part of the 20th century, more people were starting to see where all of it was heading. Even if there may have been a lack of foresight at the beginning, there was a point where we started to see the handwriting on the wall.

It wasn't merely a matter of overpopulation, resources, or environmental concerns, but also concerns about the technology trap itself. We reached a point where we became so industrialized and so specialized that we have grown inextricably dependent upon the structures and systems of a modern industrial society. All of these systems depend upon each other and must be constantly maintained and supplied, or it could conceivably fall apart very quickly.

I think most people realize that we're kind of living on a house of cards here, but there's also the realization that we can't realistically go back. We might try to cut back on consumption, use alternative forms of energy and transportation. If technology and industry put us into this trap, then maybe a way can be found to get out of it.

 

[Stevicus]

No, that would be silly, we won't all fit..... I'm thinking Greenland

That would be even colder. I prefer @ChristineM's idea of Curacao.

 

[Wu Wei]

That would be even colder. I prefer @ChristineM's idea of Curacao.

But at least Greenland might give you some elbow room....on the coast.... I'd stay out of the interior though, rather inhospitable there

 

[ChristineM]

rather inhospitable there

It is infested with bears.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm technically a Boomer, though close to the cusp with Generation X, so I could probably identify with either one, at least in terms of shared cultural observations one might have while growing up at the same time.

Why did Happy Days, the TV show have so much success? Even in Europe.
Because, as the title suggests, those were happy days, even if it was fiction.
There was no globalization, so people felt more confident and safe.

Globalization has brought nothing but global problems.
That have overwhelmed the West.

It wasn't merely a matter of overpopulation, resources, or environmental concerns, but also concerns about the technology trap itself. We reached a point where we became so industrialized and so specialized that we have grown inextricably dependent upon the structures and systems of a modern industrial society. All of these systems depend upon each other and must be constantly maintained and supplied, or it could conceivably fall apart very quickly.

It's due to the overexploitation of our ecosystems...that need a rest, every now and then.

I think most people realize that we're kind of living on a house of cards here, but there's also the realization that we can't realistically go back. We might try to cut back on consumption, use alternative forms of energy and transportation. If technology and industry put us into this trap, then maybe a way can be found to get out of it.

Lucky the Amish then, who live already outside of it.

 

[Wu Wei]

It is infested with bears.

Nah....bears aren't silly enough to be there...not even a Polar...it is however infested with glaciers and volcanos

 

[icehorse]

Overpopulation is not a problem. We already have the knowledge and resources necessary to feed a population of 8 billion people. Indeed we could feed over 10 billion just using existing technologies and in a sustained manner. In addition malnutrition has been and will continue to drop. Humanity is on the cusp of a new golden age of plenty.

What I've heard many times is that on a worldwide basis, our freshwater aquifers are being drained in unsustainable ways and that our topsoil is being depleted in unsustainable ways. There are many other issues as well, but it strikes me that we can start with those, because they seem essential to our survival.

Can you address those concerns?

 

[icehorse]

But his point was for people to "move where the food is." The world already produces enough food to feed the population, but it's unevenly distributed. People living in areas of food scarcity - many of them are trying to do just that, "move to where the food is." That's what fuels a lot of the migration we see going on, as millions are going to where the food is.

So is it your feeling that the earth can support 8 billion people sustainably?

 

[icehorse]

If everyone on earth was brought together and stood shoulder to shoulder they would take up less space than is available on the isle of white.

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Over population isn't the real problem. The need for resources that humans claim and are becoming scarce is the problem.

How are those two disconnected? They seem inextricably linked to me, no?

 

[icehorse]

I think most people realize that we're kind of living on a house of cards here, but there's also the realization that we can't realistically go back. We might try to cut back on consumption, use alternative forms of energy and transportation. If technology and industry put us into this trap, then maybe a way can be found to get out of it.

A good start would be to improve education for women, worldwide, and provide free birth control, worldwide. We can see reversals of populations growth quite quickly.

Of course the oligarchs and kleptocrats that run the planet will tell us that our economic systems DEMAND continuous growth, but I think that's untrue. We cannot accept the economic cautions provided by oligarchs.