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Cooking Knives
- Thread starter dantech
- Start date
roger1440
I do stuff
Do you spend much time in the kitchen?
ScottySatan
Well-Known Member
Practically speaking, I find that there are certain knives that I can cook with, and certain knives that I can't cook with.
Knives I can cook with have just two things: One, a straight blade, not serrated like a Ginsu. With a serrated knife it's difficult to chop a tomato and impossible to mince garlic. Two, a knife should also have a fairly thick-sturdy blade. It shouldn't bend when you use it, because it'll flex and wobble when you try to cut, so you can't slice anything evenly, but you can **** up your hand pretty good.
I don't find it really matters what kind of steel it is, but ceramic is fragile. If you hone and sharpen as you should, the only thing you need to worry about messing up your steel is bone, and you should use a heavy cleaver for that.
So anything with a straight edge, and thick enough that I can't bend it in my hands is a useful knife, as long as it's sharp. It needs to be professionally sharpened.
What knives to get? I have a large chef knife, a small chef knife, a paring knife, and a longer paring knife. Also a serrated bread knife for slicing crusty bread only.
Good steel is a bonus, but totally unnecessary to cook well. How the knife feels in your hand is more important than brand or steel quality.
Knives I can cook with have just two things: One, a straight blade, not serrated like a Ginsu. With a serrated knife it's difficult to chop a tomato and impossible to mince garlic. Two, a knife should also have a fairly thick-sturdy blade. It shouldn't bend when you use it, because it'll flex and wobble when you try to cut, so you can't slice anything evenly, but you can **** up your hand pretty good.
I don't find it really matters what kind of steel it is, but ceramic is fragile. If you hone and sharpen as you should, the only thing you need to worry about messing up your steel is bone, and you should use a heavy cleaver for that.
So anything with a straight edge, and thick enough that I can't bend it in my hands is a useful knife, as long as it's sharp. It needs to be professionally sharpened.
What knives to get? I have a large chef knife, a small chef knife, a paring knife, and a longer paring knife. Also a serrated bread knife for slicing crusty bread only.
Good steel is a bonus, but totally unnecessary to cook well. How the knife feels in your hand is more important than brand or steel quality.
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You mention using a Santoku type knife a bit. Alas, a lot of really good Japanese knives aren't readily available and the brand names are sometimes over-priced or their quality isn't great. However, you might check out JCK's products, and in particular search through their knives by blade types (just use your browser's search function and enter in "Santoku"). They offer Hattori, Masamoto, and others recommended in e.g., An Edge in the Kitchen: The Ultimate Guide to Kitchen knives
For more mainstream knives, some of the best are from the Kai/Kershaw partnership behind Shun kitchen knives: Shun Chef & Santoku knives. Both Shun and Global are recommended in the book cited above, but I can't attest to Global's quality.
Zhen knives are also good for their price, but they are not as readily available in that, unlike Shun, you'd probably have to order them from some place like Amazon.
For more purely Western knives, Chef'sChoice's Trizor cutlery includes some great knives, including a choice of Chef knife sizes.
Unless you use a chef's knife that is quite a different length or is significantly different in overall shape from a santoku knife, then I wouldn't invest in both. The point of such knives is, in many ways, that they incorporate Western design. The bigger the knife, the higher the cost in general. It's one thing to invest good money in a big knife you use a lot. It's another to invest in two that are fairly similar.
Also, there's no real point in buying a $100+ kitchen knife if you don't have the means to maintain it.
Diamond dust strips away more steel than you generally want. Very fine grit isn't so much an in issue, but then you'll spend forever either by keeping frequent sharpening or spending forever when you really need to sharpen.
Time was that the angle provided by the rim of many a ceramic jug, jar, bowl, etc., provided an ideal sharpening angle and the hardness of ceramic enabled blades to be sharpened without stripping away steel the way diamond blocks or rods do.
Do all my own cooking. Never eat out.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
You can buy just as many good knives at flea markets and garage sales for pennies as you can find in upmarket shops.
People buy excellent knives, but when the get blunt they can not sharpen them, so they eventually chuck them away.
I always have more knives than I need, because I can't resist restoring a good knife that costs peanuts.
Poor quality knives usually have a flat blade with just the last 1/2 inch towards the cutting edge hollow ground. Better ones usually are tapered both in length and full width. The actual profile of the grind can vary with the maker and the purpose.
People buy excellent knives, but when the get blunt they can not sharpen them, so they eventually chuck them away.
I always have more knives than I need, because I can't resist restoring a good knife that costs peanuts.
Poor quality knives usually have a flat blade with just the last 1/2 inch towards the cutting edge hollow ground. Better ones usually are tapered both in length and full width. The actual profile of the grind can vary with the maker and the purpose.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
Well I do!...Thief is ninja!
oops!...sorry.....wrong thread.
I just get carried away when I talk about sharp things!
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I second this.
They're great for light jobs (no bone chopping), & they've come way down in price.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Toolmaker here!
and I have cut myself!!!!!!!
Sharp is actually a relative term.
My favorite play tool is a 22inch blade......no sharp edge.
You can drag it back and forth on your arm and it will not cut you.
But if someone was to tap your forehead with it....the blood would gush!
Thief is ninja!
On the cutting board.....
What are you trying to do?...surgery?
YES!
But no two materials are the same.
Sharp enough to cut onion skin.....ok.....but why?
Green pepper skin?....sure.....but that veggie cuts real easy from the inside out!
Let's note the difference.....keen to sharp.
Keen refers to the angle of the blade as both flats come together.(the smaller the angle.....more to keen)
Sharp refers to the uniformity of the edge.
To shave your face the edge is formed on two concave surfaces coming together.
To chop your firewood, two convex surfaces come together to form the edge.
To 'sharpen' an axe for shaving is ridiculous.
To chop resistant material with your razor is ridiculous.
Now having exaggerated the two extremes......how do you want your steak?
Most flesh parts well enough with two flat surfaces forming the edge.
The blade is thin and the bevel of the margin is wide.
Look these up!
Chopping has a heavy blade and the bevel is sparse.
This will allow the blade to survive as you whack through dense material.
There is also the distinct feel of the cut!
Put the point to the board and PULL!......do not push.
When slicing to thin section.....press your fingers to hold the material....
with your fingernails VERTICAL!
Consider the GRAIN of the material.
Some items will turn the cut as you do so.
DON"T be cute and chop your veggies in the air.
If the material won't slice......put the knife down.
Take the item in your grip and break it.
Then try boiling it.
If it still won't yield......you didn't want to eat it anyway.
and I have cut myself!!!!!!!
Sharp is actually a relative term.
My favorite play tool is a 22inch blade......no sharp edge.
You can drag it back and forth on your arm and it will not cut you.
But if someone was to tap your forehead with it....the blood would gush!
Thief is ninja!
On the cutting board.....
What are you trying to do?...surgery?
YES!
But no two materials are the same.
Sharp enough to cut onion skin.....ok.....but why?
Green pepper skin?....sure.....but that veggie cuts real easy from the inside out!
Let's note the difference.....keen to sharp.
Keen refers to the angle of the blade as both flats come together.(the smaller the angle.....more to keen)
Sharp refers to the uniformity of the edge.
To shave your face the edge is formed on two concave surfaces coming together.
To chop your firewood, two convex surfaces come together to form the edge.
To 'sharpen' an axe for shaving is ridiculous.
To chop resistant material with your razor is ridiculous.
Now having exaggerated the two extremes......how do you want your steak?
Most flesh parts well enough with two flat surfaces forming the edge.
The blade is thin and the bevel of the margin is wide.
Look these up!
Chopping has a heavy blade and the bevel is sparse.
This will allow the blade to survive as you whack through dense material.
There is also the distinct feel of the cut!
Put the point to the board and PULL!......do not push.
When slicing to thin section.....press your fingers to hold the material....
with your fingernails VERTICAL!
Consider the GRAIN of the material.
Some items will turn the cut as you do so.
DON"T be cute and chop your veggies in the air.
If the material won't slice......put the knife down.
Take the item in your grip and break it.
Then try boiling it.
If it still won't yield......you didn't want to eat it anyway.
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Absolutely! However, generally this is only if you are really lucky or you know what you are looking for.
Or, just as bad, they don't really know how to sharpen them and end up getting them a sharper for a while (i.e., for some time this poor sharpening does actually sharpen the blade) but ultimately ruin the blade.
Hence, there's no point in investing in a good knife if you don't have the tools to maintain it. Better to just by ceramic blades and throw them away when they dull, IMO.
Wait...there is such a thing?
Then you should probably be more concerned about whether or not you have the proper sharpening tools. Think about razors: they are quite literally razor sharp, but they aren't hand-forged by some master bladesmith nor made from expensive, high-end steels. Any knife you buy will be made from steel. Steel is harder than newspaper, tomatoes, and produce in general. This means that you can buy pretty much any kitchen knife and ensure it will slice through any of the above.
Apart from things like the comfort and security of the grip, what makes a good kitchen knife good vs. not so good is what Thief (I believe) mentioned some time ago: the edge. You can sharpen knives you buy at the grocery store so that they'll slice through paper and produce as in the video. The issue is how long that edge lasts, and how much work you have to do in order to maintain it. Another issue, of course, is how easily the edge will fracture, chip, bend, etc. That's when certain steels really outshine others: they can be hardened to a point that would make other steels unusable (as they would be too brittle) and yet remain "tough" with good wear resistance.
Where good steel doesn't come into play much is whether or not a knife will cut through all the stuff in the clip. Many of my knives I don't use: they are part of a collection and several of them aren't really usable unless the US were invaded by Vikings (e.g., my Mercworx Goliath). However, they are all made using very high quality materials and by bladesmiths or companies with great reputations. Yet if I made them sharp enough to cut through paper as in the clip, they wouldn't be able to cut a tomato: by creating a razor edge I'd sort of be putting a "2nd edge" on the blade that, when not cutting something as thin as paper, would prevent the "real" edge from doing anything.
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
If you like to cook (as I do), then "invest"
Buy the best knives you can afford. And yes, like most things of any lasting value, the more you can afford, the better the payoff in the long run.
There is no such thing as a "best" knife, for your own daily activities will inform you best in establishing priorities. Know this...a dull knife of any sort will always make foodstuff preparation more difficult.
I won't offer any "favored" or "superior" band name to invest in, though I do have my favorites.
I'll offer this much further tho'...if you invest in a decent set of quality knives, they will last you a lifetime, if you advantage yourself of professional aid in sharpening those knives as required. Hardened steel knives will outlast you, when properly cared for. I swear. I have a finely balanced Santoku myself that has remained a favorite nearly 40 years now. It's so sharp, it's scary.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Henkel is a manufacturer
Sabatier is a place or district
as is Sheffield and Toledo
damascene steel Is a unique low temperature type of steel originally from damascus and can not be reproduced. (modern damascus steel is a twisted laminated steel like Japanese sword steel)
Japanese sword steel was more a technique of blade making than a steel.
All these steels can be good bad or indifferent.
But all except henkel have a historic reputation that goes back centuries and all were famous for particular characteristics.
But none is an absolute guarantee of quality.
dantech
Well-Known Member
Alright, the feel I'm getting here is that the knife isn't as important as the sharpening. I already have a few knives, maybe they just aren't sharp enough.
Who can give me the 101 about sharpening? I tried youtubing a few videos but all I find is people who have expensive, non-accessible for the regular guy tools to sharpen their knives.
I do have this, http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/kitchenaid-knife-sharpener-0428507p.html#.VC1Q_vl5Mc0
Who can give me the 101 about sharpening? I tried youtubing a few videos but all I find is people who have expensive, non-accessible for the regular guy tools to sharpen their knives.
I do have this, http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/kitchenaid-knife-sharpener-0428507p.html#.VC1Q_vl5Mc0