http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/u...ng-shot-by-cleveland-police-officer.html?_r=1
More of the same. Who and what is to blame?
More of the same. Who and what is to blame?
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Cop murders 12 year old boy
- Thread starter Iti oj
- Start date
I'm waiting for somebody to say he provoked it and brought it on himself. Just give it a few minutes.
My view, this culture of elevating law enforcement into the position of judge, jury, and executioner has got to stop. They do not have to accountable for their actions. And with the increase in militarization of PD's around the country, my opinion of our country acting more like a police state is confirmed.
Stories like this enrage me.
My view, this culture of elevating law enforcement into the position of judge, jury, and executioner has got to stop. They do not have to accountable for their actions. And with the increase in militarization of PD's around the country, my opinion of our country acting more like a police state is confirmed.
Stories like this enrage me.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
I bet this officer will get a pension and get off scott-free, as well.
averageJOE
zombie
I think its the 911 dispatch who should be at fault. The cops were responding to a call of a "a male threatening with a gun". They learned the boys age and that it was a replica air soft gun after the shooting. Dispatch did not relay everything the 911 caller said to the police.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Did anyone bother to look at the fake gun the boy had? It is a replica (they shouldn't even make these things) of a semiautomatic and the orange tip to set it apart was removed. It looked real. In a short blip of time where someone had to make, what they believed was a life or death call, one could not determine off the cuff that it was fake as it looked more real than fake. As for blame, there may be plenty to go around. How about the parents for letting him play with such an item? Especially when it looked the way it did? Yes, the boy as well, for waving what appeared to be a real gun at people, and this also falls back upon the parents for not teaching him well. Perhaps the dispatcher did transmit the information about the gun possibly being fake, perhaps they didn't, but the officer on the scene had to make the actual determination that it was fake and that couldn't be done in a glimpse, especially given what type of fake gun it was.
All that said, is it horrible that a 12y/o boy died because of all this? Of course. But I can't possibly just put the blame for that on the officer, not with actually seeing the gun the boy was waving/holding and appeared to pull upon the officer. 12 y/o kids and younger have been known to commit brutal crimes. So his age is not a defense against the officer either.
The one thing I will comment upon here is that I believe that officers could be trained in better take-down and shooting efforts. If they are going to use a gun to take down a suspect then they better have better capabilities with aiming and aim for extremities, not center mass. Take out a leg if possible. Center mass should only be used if in an actual fire fight. JMO
All that said, is it horrible that a 12y/o boy died because of all this? Of course. But I can't possibly just put the blame for that on the officer, not with actually seeing the gun the boy was waving/holding and appeared to pull upon the officer. 12 y/o kids and younger have been known to commit brutal crimes. So his age is not a defense against the officer either.
The one thing I will comment upon here is that I believe that officers could be trained in better take-down and shooting efforts. If they are going to use a gun to take down a suspect then they better have better capabilities with aiming and aim for extremities, not center mass. Take out a leg if possible. Center mass should only be used if in an actual fire fight. JMO
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Something like that would have never happened in Europe.
I don't want to sound judgmental, but this kind of episodes are not rare in America
I don't want to sound judgmental, but this kind of episodes are not rare in America
Skwim
Veteran Member
Having talked to an officer I know, he said that in such situations aiming for an appendage rather than the trunk is far too risky. Missing is often as likely as hitting, and the trunk offers a far better chance of hitting.
The media is to blame first for wanting to flame stories like this especially if there is a racial aspect to the story. The media knows how to get people riled up with anti-police and anti-White Cop insinuations.
I am still a pro-police person. We are asking human beings to perform a service for us that can be ugly and deadly dangerous. I have known many and they are good people.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Those involving children sure are. And very few adults carry fake pistols. So actually, such episodes are indeed rare.
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So what aspect of the linked OP story is inflammatory?George-ananda said:
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It's already been implied. From the article.MysticSang'ha said:
"Two police officers responded to the scene and ordered the boy to raise his hands, the police said, but he refused and reached for a gun in his waistband. An officer fired two shots, striking the boy once, the police said."
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That would be me.
Draka
Wonder Woman
You're not the only one George, though I do think that his parent/s had a large chunk of the blame too. Whoever bought or allowed him to have such a "toy" as well, and that, in some way, has to include the parent/s. People don't want to take responsibility for stupid actions. They want to blame someone else for the repercussions of their stupid actions. The boy, the parent/s, even the toy company that put out such a realistic "toy" all have some blame in this. Least of all is the actual cop.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Ohio is an open carry state. It doesn't matter whether or not the gun was real or fake or had its orange tip or was a bb gun, none of this matters because it's all totally legal in Ohio. The cop didn't have legal authority to demand an ID, let alone kill him. It's murder.
Someone said they're waiting for someone to say he provoked it and brought it on himself, well, too late, the cops already did that. They are using the usual story that after identifying themselves to the kid, he pulled the gun on them... because, you know, when us normal people are playing in the park or otherwise minding our own business, the first reaction is always to attack police on site.
Someone said they're waiting for someone to say he provoked it and brought it on himself, well, too late, the cops already did that. They are using the usual story that after identifying themselves to the kid, he pulled the gun on them... because, you know, when us normal people are playing in the park or otherwise minding our own business, the first reaction is always to attack police on site.
It's time to ban such toys.
I wouldn't call it a "murder", but an accidental death. It's not the first time I've heard of such things happening: It's tragic. Since I am neither the dead child nor the officer, I don't really know what happened and I will not put any blame.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Open carry? For a young boy claimed to have waved it at people? And when told to put up your hands you don't reach for what even an officer may perceive as a gun. You put up your hands and let them search and disarm you. Had that been done then perhaps the "gun" in question would have been identified as a toy and this whole thing would have been nothing.
Fact is, claiming open carry is still absurd because since when can a 12 y/o purchase and legally own and carry a gun? Even in an open carry state? They can't in Ohio, so still, it wouldn't be legal for a kid to carry a gun.
Fact is, claiming open carry is still absurd because since when can a 12 y/o purchase and legally own and carry a gun? Even in an open carry state? They can't in Ohio, so still, it wouldn't be legal for a kid to carry a gun.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Very much so. If someone wants to put out gun toys then make them obviously toys. The very plastic looking "old west" cap guns, or the brightly colored Nerf type things. Since when has having a toy gun so realistic as to be mistaken for the real thing ever been a good idea?