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Cop murders 12 year old boy

George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Skwim said:
So what aspect of the linked OP story is inflammatory?
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The linked article was OK. My comments were about the media in general not that article. Other cases have blown up beyond reasonable proportions in their amount of media coverage. I hope it doesn't happen again.
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Draka said:
Very much so. If someone wants to put out gun toys then make them obviously toys. The very plastic looking "old west" cap guns, or the brightly colored Nerf type things. Since when has having a toy gun so realistic as to be mistaken for the real thing ever been a good idea?
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It was never a good idea to make toy guns look real. Water pistols used to be bright colors, like orange and green. I think I heard about a shooting of a 4-year-old child getting shot by a police officer when waving one of those: That was about 30+ years ago.
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
Making real guns that look fake isn't helping matters much.
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Just take a look through "pink breast cancer guns" in images. Making real guns that kind of look "fake" by todays standards, in combination with toy guns that look real...how can one possibly be expected to tell the difference, especially at an important glimpse?
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Draka said:
Did anyone bother to look at the fake gun the boy had? It is a replica (they shouldn't even make these things) of a semiautomatic and the orange tip to set it apart was removed. It looked real. In a short blip of time where someone had to make, what they believed was a life or death call, one could not determine off the cuff that it was fake as it looked more real than fake. As for blame, there may be plenty to go around. How about the parents for letting him play with such an item? Especially when it looked the way it did? Yes, the boy as well, for waving what appeared to be a real gun at people, and this also falls back upon the parents for not teaching him well. Perhaps the dispatcher did transmit the information about the gun possibly being fake, perhaps they didn't, but the officer on the scene had to make the actual determination that is was fake and that couldn't be done in a glimpse, especially given what type of fake gun it was.

All that said, is it horrible that a 12y/o boy died because of all this? Of course. But I can't possibly just put the blame for that on the officer, not with actually seeing the gun the boy was waving/holding and appeared to pull upon the officer. 12 y/o kids and younger have been known to commit brutal crimes. So his age is not a defense against the officer either.

The one thing I will comment upon here is that I believe that officers could be trained in better take-down and shooting efforts. If they are going to use a gun to take down a suspect then they better have better capabilities with aiming and aim for extremities, not center mass. Take out a leg if possible. Center mass should only be used if in an actual fire fight. JMO
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I share your reasoning and sentiments.
 
F

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
Draka said:
Open carry? For a young boy claimed to have waved it at people? And when told to put up your hands you don't reach for what even an officer may perceive as a gun. You put up your hands and let them search and disarm you. Had that been done then perhaps the "gun" in question would have been identified as a toy and this whole thing would have been nothing.
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You see, this right here is how we got to this situation in the first place. Police don't have that much power. They don't have the right to search and disarm you. They barely have a right to stop and talk to you, and we don't have to talk to them at all. They can detain you if and only if they suspect you of committing a crime or are about to commit a crime. If you don't flex your rights you don't have rights.

This kid wasn't doing anything illegal and with open carry laws the cops had no reason to suspect he was doing anything illegal. This is a totally unjustified killing by over zealous cops who didn't even have the legal authority to ask this kid his name.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
freethinker44 said:
The cop didn't have legal authority to demand an ID, let alone kill him. It's murder.
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So where is it stated that they demanded ID? And since when is a killing made in perceived self defense, murder? Seems you just like to concoct the scenario to suit your prejudices. :thumbsdown:
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
freethinker44 said:
They are using the usual story that after identifying themselves to the kid, he pulled the gun on them... .
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Any reason to think that did not happen......the police have seen the videos and offered to show them to the family......
 
F

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
So where is it stated that they demanded ID?
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No one stated they demanded ID, I'm saying they didn't even have the legal authority to do that much, let alone approach with guns drawn and demand he put his hands in the air.

Skwim said:
And since when is a killing made in perceived self defense, murder? Seems you just like to concoct the scenario to suit your prejudices. :thumbsdown:
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Allowing anyone, not just police, to justify a killing because of "perceived self defense" is giving people a license to kill indiscriminately. If there was no actual threat how can we prove there was or wasn't a perception of danger. And no, getting a call about someone with a gun isn't a reason to suspect a threat, it's not illegal to open carry a gun in Ohio. Cops can't even use the excuse that they are in a dangerous line of work so the threat level is always raised because most jobs in the US are more dangerous than being a police officer. Whatever threat was perceived was completely manufactured. They were not acting under the color of law by being there, how can you possibly argue perception of self defense is a legitimate defense if they shouldn't have even been there?
 
Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Bible Student said:
If a person is in a park, where many people are, and this person is waving a gun around,who's fault is that? If the police say to this person "put your hands up", and this person decides to go for the gun, and gets shot in the process,who's fault is that?
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KID!!! not person but a kid!
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Koldo said:
Agreed.
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Maybe we should ban all the 'thug life' ambiance that may have influenced the thinking of a 12 year old boy that would make him believe a firearm (real or fake) could be pulled on police officers. Just sayin'...
 
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freethinker44

Well-Known Member
Koldo said:
Except that is exactly what happened.
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Why? Was it illegal to walk around with a gun? Did they see him waving it at people? No, they got a call that "probably a juvenile" playing in the park with "probably a fake gun". So some cop thought he was Rambo and some kid lost his life for it and the cop gets a paid vacation.
 
Nada

Nada

#
Iti oj said:
KID!!! not person but a kid!
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That kid is still a person is he not? A person who knew what he was doing right? He was waving a gun around threatening people with it.That is not something that is done in today's world.Especially today.It matters not if you are a 12 year old kid or a 80 year old man.If you wave a gun around and threaten people with it,and then refuse to put your hands up and go for the gun,you will get smoked.It's that simple.I am sorry that happened to this person but that's what happens when you do things like that.I am also sorry for the cop who had to do that.I am sure he did not want to murder a young person.Life today is complicated.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
freethinker44 said:
Why? Was it illegal to walk around with a gun?
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As far as I know, for him, yes.

freethinker44 said:
Did they see him waving it at people? No, they got a call that "probably a juvenile" playing in the park with "probably a fake gun". So some cop thought he was Rambo and some kid lost his life for it and the cop gets a paid vacation.
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And when they got there and noticed he had what looked very much like a real gun they asked him to put his hands up. Then the boy decided to reach for his "gun".
 
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