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Cops catch 'em, Courts jail 'em Obama turns 'em loose!

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Yes^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
It might not be my fault for becoming addicted but it's MY responsibility to recover.
Yes! Sounds like you're keeping it under control.
Perhaps I can help others?
I try.
It's a noble effort, I think.

My dad always wanted to help others too, even though he couldn't help himself. I thought I'd take over now that he's gone and do my best to help others as well. :)

My son, age 45, gets out of prison in a few days and will be paroled to me.
I will help him get stated in his new life by providing him with truck, tools, SUPPORT.
etc.
He's a gifted carpenter.
Heroin got him into burglary to support his addiction.
When he learned he was a person of interest he went to the police and confessed
all and took a terrible hit for that.
6 years in the joint.
He will get all the help he needs from a loving father.
I judge no one.
You sound like a great father. And your son sounds like a good guy. I'm confident you'll be able to help him and keep him on track.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Thanks! Actually I am addicted to cigarettes.

Do you enjoy smoking?

I ask, because I do. I especially enjoy being a moderate smoker which I wasn't able to accomplish until vaping. I do both, though around 95% of the time I vape. I smoke about a pack every 3 weeks, usually giving a bunch away.

I also ask because of some things you've said in this thread, about no one chooses to be an addict. If you enjoy smoking, and are addicted, and realize there are options to slow down / become not addicted, then why would one not do this other than the choice of being a cigarette addict is more appealing?

I've quit cold turkey myself 3 times previously (never quitting less than a year). I recall the times I started up making a choice, albeit it emotionally charged, that I am choosing to be an addict if I smoke just this one. Now, all that seems silly to me, because of vaping. I find it not possible to be addicted to smoking while vaping exists and is used, even a little bit.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Do you enjoy smoking?

I ask, because I do. I especially enjoy being a moderate smoker which I wasn't able to accomplish until vaping. I do both, though around 95% of the time I vape. I smoke about a pack every 3 weeks, usually giving a bunch away.

I also ask because of some things you've said in this thread, about no one chooses to be an addict. If you enjoy smoking, and are addicted, and realize there are options to slow down / become not addicted, then why would one not do this other than the choice of being a cigarette addict is more appealing?

I've quit cold turkey myself 3 times previously (never quitting less than a year). I recall the times I started up making a choice, albeit it emotionally charged, that I am choosing to be an addict if I smoke just this one. Now, all that seems silly to me, because of vaping. I find it not possible to be addicted to smoking while vaping exists and is used, even a little bit.
I enjoy certain aspects of smoking, like the way it makes me feel when I'm stressed out. But that doesn't mean I enjoy being addicted to them or that I enjoy the cravings I get. I certainly don't enjoy the withdrawal symptoms; so I smoke more to make them go away.Withdrawal is one of the main reasons people have a hard time with addiction and why they keep getting sucked back into it. Because using alleviates those uncomfortable symptoms (and depending on the substance, sometimes life-threatening symptoms). I don't know that I'd say that cigarettes cause the same level of problems that narcotic and illegal drug addiction can have on people's lives and the lives of those around them. Cigarettes will most likely kill me, if I continue smoking them for the rest of my life though, so I should probably give it up if I want to live to be an old woman. Quitting smoking isn't quite as bad as say, quitting alcohol, especially if I've been drinking for 30 years. The withdrawal symptoms from that can be terrifying and even life-threatening. So there is something of a difference there.

I've tried to quit probably about 3 times and had a really, really hard time with it. I suppose I am making the conscious choice to continue to be an addict if I continue smoking even though I want to quit, so I can see what you're getting at there. But I didn't choose to become addicted to smoking. Most people don't choose to become addicted to prescription painkillers but that's how they end up.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Drug addicts are just people. Nobody chooses to be a drug addict. They need help, rather than scorn.
Addiction can be as strong as instinct. It would have to take immense trauma to get a person to stop and even then, I suspect some would rather outright die then quit.

I agree that help is better than prison which clearly isn't working creating perpetual turn-key inmates.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Addiction can be as strong as instinct. It would have to take immense trauma to get a person to stop and even then, I suspect some would rather outright die then quit.

I agree that help is better than prison which clearly isn't working creating perpetual turn-key inmates.
Agreed. Can't argue with that.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
rather difficult to take you "all drug involvement is violent" rant seriously when you so readily dismiss a drug issue simply because said drug is legal.
Smacks greatly of hypocrisy.


Shouldn't that be drug Abuse, not use?
Taking a legally prescribed narcotic drug AS prescribed is ethical and sensible.
Using said drug to get high is drug abuse.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Been alcohol free for a while now but my mind is a dangerous neighborhood and
I should NEVER go there alone.
No one really understands addiction I don't think.
My mind still says "awww, it wasn't that bad".

Yes it was. I nearly died no long ago, and not for the first time.
I've never had a d.u.i. or any run ins with the law for anything.
Never lost a job, or any of the usual social consequences.
But my health was failing fast.
Drink=dead. But my mind will still say...........................
Ego I hang around A.A. a lot. I associate with sober people and dry places.
Every now and then I go with Dee to her country club and see others having
a drink or two and eventually I think " I can to that " but I squash lots thoughts
quicky.
Euphoric recall is the term for that.
Remembering "fun" times and forget the horrors.
The last time I relapsed I was on my hands and knees in my front yard at home alone
in the country puking FOUR hours straight.
Damn I was sick and lucky I didn't start bleeding as I'd have surely died there.
I relate these stories not to elicit sympathy but to describe the pain of addiction.
Horror, simply horror.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You really think addicts enjoy their lives as addicts? Addiction is a sign of a much deeper problem that has never been dealt with. Most people aren't equipped to deal with issues like that.
Nobody just says, "I feel being an addict today, because it seems so fun. I'm gonna shoot up some heroin."

It's easy to say "just put down the drugs" when you don't have a psychological and physical dependence on it.

People always go on about how it's not a choice. Look, I don't know anyone who doesn't know drugs are bad for them by the time they hit junior high. It all starts with a conscious choice to put it in your body. If you never take them, you'll never need or want to take them again. In any case, putting down the drugs and dealing with your problems that drive you to them is the best way to stop. You can't figure out your problems when you are still taking them because they completely mess with your thinking. Of course, you're told this in grade school and if you thought they were lying you're still being pretty stupid.

As far as people not being equipped, it's complete rubbish. We can take a lot more and deal with a lot more than we think we can. As long as an addict believes they can't stop they wont, and nothing we say can change that. Most of my comments are simple -- it's not society (or the government's) job to babysit full grown adults, and they should only intervene when such folks decide it is time to rob or harm others. My gun rhetoric is based on the premise that mostly the cops will arrive to count bodies or take a report of what is stolen, and good citizens deserve to live and keep what they've earned. We can't stop people from making bad choices, but we can mitigate the damage and stop throwing money into a black hole.

Giving the government or someone else the right to intervene in your life to manage you like cattle basically empowers them to take over other aspects of your life. I'm willing to let natural selection weed out the weaker of our species for the good of everyone else.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Shouldn't that be drug Abuse, not use?
Taking a legally prescribed narcotic drug AS prescribed is ethical and sensible.
Using said drug to get high is drug abuse.

If you need opiates for chronic pain or some other issue it isn't the same thing. You have to take the negative effects with the positive, and then make that choice if there are no other options. Opiate use (in any amount) shortens your life, but it might make your standard of living better if you really need it. I have a friend who takes a constant amount of morphine, but he only takes the one or two pills the doctor prescribed. He tried other drugs, and they just don't work the same. He is physically addicted to them, but his tolerance is high enough to his normal dose that he doesn't even get high off of them.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
There's no choice involved in becoming a drug addict. Who would choose that?

Trying to quit is a conscious choice, but even then you're fighting against your brain's addiction to the chemical, your psychological addiction to the chemical and the environmental stimuli that trigger the physical and psychological need for that chemical, your body's physical dependence on the chemical, to name a few things. It's not as easy as some people seem to think, I guess is what I'm saying.

I just hate the attitude that drug addicts are pieces of garbage. They're someone's father, mother, sister, brother, child, etc. They're people who need help.

I know that I might be sounding callous but I'm just going to be frank.

First, I never said addicts are garbage. They're not. They're human beings but they do not get an exempt from responsibility. It is the individual's responsibility to care for his own health.

Concerning choice, inanimate objects do not choose, force or coerce us into doing what we don't want to do. The choice by definition, by semantics, by psychology, by logic is of our own doing.

Choosing is not always as simplistic and quick as say picking out an outfit or determining what to eat. It can be as complex or systematic as building a career or losing weight which can take years or decades. For example, when I chose to become an engineer, it didn't just happen overnight. It was through years of study and practice to finally become one.

When one chooses to stop use then they will be free from addiction. It starts with the individual.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I enjoy certain aspects of smoking, like the way it makes me feel when I'm stressed out. But that doesn't mean I enjoy being addicted to them or that I enjoy the cravings I get. I certainly don't enjoy the withdrawal symptoms; so I smoke more to make them go away.Withdrawal is one of the main reasons people have a hard time with addiction and why they keep getting sucked back into it. Because using alleviates those uncomfortable symptoms (and depending on the substance, sometimes life-threatening symptoms). I don't know that I'd say that cigarettes cause the same level of problems that narcotic and illegal drug addiction can have on people's lives and the lives of those around them. Cigarettes will most likely kill me, if I continue smoking them for the rest of my life though, so I should probably give it up if I want to live to be an old woman. Quitting smoking isn't quite as bad as say, quitting alcohol, especially if I've been drinking for 30 years. The withdrawal symptoms from that can be terrifying and even life-threatening. So there is something of a difference there.

I've tried to quit probably about 3 times and had a really, really hard time with it. I suppose I am making the conscious choice to continue to be an addict if I continue smoking even though I want to quit, so I can see what you're getting at there. But I didn't choose to become addicted to smoking. Most people don't choose to become addicted to prescription painkillers but that's how they end up.

I noticed you didn't even allude to vaping. Most vapers I know (from online) go with cessation from smoking. The few I know in person it is about split 50/50.

Becoming moderate smoking person, plus having experience I've had of being fully liberated, I know I'm no longer addicted to smoking. I don't get the cravings.

The reason(s) I choose to smoke / prefer it over continuing to vape in that moment is namely the taste. In general, vaping tastes way better than smoking, but I do sometimes prefer or desire a taste of a smoke. So, I'll have a half a smoke sometimes. "Smoke" is not a flavor that the flavor chefs/chemists have been able to nail down, and even if they came very close, I'd probably prefer the smoke occasionally for the 'smoke' feeling. I think they don't really care to make a 'smoke' flavored vape. I compare it to soda in this regard. Soda makers don't care to make a beer flavored beverage. Myself, I strongly prefer the taste of soda over all beers I've ever tried. Yet, sometimes I prefer or desire the taste of a beer. In 2016, I've probably had 3 beers at most.

Another reason I smoke, but is so unique and hard to convey that I'm reluctant to bring it up is that I'm still fond of being able to be a moderate smoker. There's so much stigmatization / negatives associated with smoking that I feel are either entirely, or mostly attributed to being an abusive or full fledged smoker.

Like you bring up "like the way it makes me feel when I'm stressed out." Only a smoker can relate to this, and non-smoker probably, or anti-smoker for sure, would suggest you find another way to deal with stress. Heck, I'm now sure even you and I would suggest that, but hopefully you and I wouldn't beat up / make guilty them that choose smoking as way to cope with stress. Honestly though, as vaper, I've noticed my stress level go significantly down. When I ceased smoking, there is a 'honeymoon' period where that appears to occur, but then I found it would eventually come back to 'normal level' and as non-smoker, I'd either a) use some other substance (likely food/sweets) or b) use my spiritual understandings to focus on rationale for stress and overcoming it. I think B happens with most everyone, but smoking just makes it easier to focus.

Which is a key word, focus. Nicotine in generally has me focus better. I get that more from vaping than smoking, and is noticeably more than when I had ceased smoking. Nicotine is somewhat well known in medical research for being a bit of a wonder drug, and has helped in treating (though not curing) alzheimer's or similar brain debilitating diseases. Yet, because of significant / ongoing political battle over smoking, and now vaping, this gets majorly downplayed in pop culture.

The withdrawal factor is something I can relate to. I went cold turkey 3 times. One was super duper easy to stop (and very spiritual for me), the other 2 were less spiritual and more of a psychological struggle. Got so bad on I think day 3 that I gave in, had about 3 puffs and then (only then) knew I wouldn't want another one for the foreseeable future. After about 30 days, cessation can become addicting, and after about 1.5 years (for me), I felt so liberated it would be hard pressed to think why I would ever smoke again. With vaping, the routine reported experience is that the switch has zero or very little impact on withdrawal (which still surprises me, but I find to be accurate) and then quitting vaping (nicotine) leads to zero withdrawal as well.

Though another, I would say huge benefit, of vaping is I no longer get colds. I used to get them at least twice a year, more if I was smoking. Now, I've had one cold in past 5 years. As vaping liquid uses anti-germ substances, it makes sense why no longer get colds. I can feel that familiar feeling of 'coming down with a cold,' then vape that day a bit more than usual and by that night, I'm no longer feeling like I have or will get a cold.

Getting a bit back to the topic, though I think this is all on topic especially given how hypocritical Obama/Dems are on nicotine as drug and making it so addicts feel as ashamed as possible, I would agree that smoking addiction doesn't generally line up well with say alcohol abuse or hard drug (like meth or crack) addiction. Never used the latter 2, and never felt addicted to alcohol, but I would say habitual use of those routinely comes across as worse for the individual and possibly those around the users than smoking. I agree that the detox/withdrawal effects and experience are arguably reason enough to maintain the addiction to the other substances.

Though, I still see that as a choice, because as you are conveying, no one wants to be addicted, yet will tolerate and/or forgive themselves of a whole slew of problems, some health related while being an abuser. Thus a psychological battle that is ongoing and likely very personal, though also not very unique as many have come before them and had strong addictions to those substances. I think, from my own experiences with addiction, it's partly self identity (as in who am I really if I'm not using) and partly, or mostly psychological in the way that withdrawal is not desired and strong belief that 'I function better' when I use. Having it removed against choice might be helpful (very likely in the short term), but the psychological withdrawal may not be satisfied until a rock bottom of sorts is reached and they choose to seek help with not just withdrawal, but substituting with the inherent stress that comes with the psychological things I brought up. I personally find spirit (own internal guide) will see right through self deceits built up around fear of quitting and provide source to draw upon for choosing otherwise when next urge to use comes up.

As this thread shows, and I think is normative thinking, society generally has far less patience with habitual users who hint at not wanting to continue, and yet may still choose to use again. I think many feel that cannot be treated with kid gloves and focus on cessation as only viable goal, and to heck with any psychological factors (or BS) the user may feel otherwise.

Thing is, and I brought this up in earlier post, I really don't see many people (like one out of 1000) who aren't addicted to some other drug or some type of behavior. Bring any of this tough talk up with them about that and suddenly those same types are whistling another tune, one where they no longer want to be around you cause they really do think they have their 'usage' under control and yet have zero vocal desire to slow down or stop.

So, when I see that stuff in a thread like this, I take it with a grain of salt. Chances are they have own addictions, but find it easier to beat up on these 'low lifes' than face their own self.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
As I've stated addiction is horrible.
First step is to admit to ones self that there is a problem.
Far too many are in denial and that is not a river in Africa.
My b.i.l. STILL goes through a case of beer a day. His wife, my sister, is STILL a binge
drinker and when using liquor becomes a beeeeeeeatch!
B.I.L. is a happy drinker and avoids any issues with my sis.
He's feline whipped. Get it?
Both would deny any kind of alcohol problem.
Maybe they just like drinking that much? I can't take their inventory for them.
Needless to say they don't associate with me any longer since I don't "play"
that game now. Year ago sis was hospitalized for pancreas attacks, very painful,
and told her docs she didn't drink at all.
Denial to the extreme.
Sad and there is nothing to be done about it until they muster up the courage to
face those issues.
 
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