Cops Love To Bully & Assault Civilians

[Revoltingest]

We see it over & over. Cops use any pretext
to beat & arrest people. Doesn't matter if
there's no reasonable suspicion of a crime.
This former cop explains how he was trained,
& why cops escalate matters, intend injury,
& construct a scenario to frame the victim
for a fake crime. Victim has a $75,000
medical bill. Suit is inevitable.

Caution: Physical & verbal abuse of the victim
who is in great pain.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We see it over & over. Cops use any pretext
to beat & arrest people. Doesn't matter if
there's no reasonable suspicion of a crime.
This former cop explains how he was trained,
& why cops escalate matters.
Caution: Physical & verbal abuse of the victim.

You know, I really have to say it -- you and I, one living in the US and one in Canada, have wildly different experiences. Maybe I'm not observant enough, but I see so very little of that here.

 

[Revoltingest]

You know, I really have to say it -- you and I, one living in the US and one in Canada, have wildly different experiences. Maybe I'm not observant enough, but I see so very little of that here.

I don't see it personally at all.
But then I don't belong to the most vulnerable groups,
nor do I find myself in situations involving cops. But
don't worry....there are videos of bad Canuckistanian
cops too.

 

[Left Coast]

You know, I really have to say it -- you and I, one living in the US and one in Canada, have wildly different experiences. Maybe I'm not observant enough, but I see so very little of that here.

In my experience cops are much like everyone else. Some are terrible people, some are good people. Some are incompetent, some are amazing at their jobs and try to do their best consistently. Most of them fall in the middle of the bell curve.

 

[Revoltingest]

In my experience cops are much like everyone else. Some are terrible people, some are good people. Some are incompetent, some are amazing at their jobs and try to do their best consistently. Most of them fall in the middle of the bell curve.

The ex-cop who operates the youtube channel I linked
described most cops as being trained to wrongfully
charge people with crimes.
Good cops appear to be a small minority. This might
not be noticed because for many bad cops, their
illegal acts might be a small percentage of their
interactions. And often, when one cop is acting
illegally, it's rare for other cops around to restrain
the bad one. To stand by & do nothing when this
happens is to be a bad cop.

 

[fantome profane]

You know, I really have to say it -- you and I, one living in the US and one in Canada, have wildly different experiences. Maybe I'm not observant enough, but I see so very little of that here.

I also live in Canada. There have been horrible cases of police misconduct here. I think fewer cases of police actually shooting people, but lots of cases of abuse of power, harassment, misconduct.

I know we like to think we are better than our southern neighbours, and maybe we are, but we are far from perfect.

 

[Heyo]

In my experience cops are much like everyone else. Some are terrible people, some are good people. Some are incompetent, some are amazing at their jobs and try to do their best consistently. Most of them fall in the middle of the bell curve.

I don't think so. The job attracts people who like to have and use authority. Without a serious training in where the limits of their authority are you get a group which is way over to the authoritarian side of the bell curve (compared to the general population).

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think so. The job attracts people who like to have and use authority.

And they become different because of training & cop culture.

 

[Left Coast]

I don't think so. The job attracts people who like to have and use authority. Without a serious training in where the limits of their authority are you get a group which is way over to the authoritarian side of the bell curve (compared to the general population).

Having and using authority are not inherently negative things. We need people in society who have and use authority. The question is how it's used.

 

[Left Coast]

The ex-cop who operates the youtube channel I linked
described most cops as being trained to wrongfully
charge people with crimes.
Good cops appear to be a small minority. This might
not be noticed because for many bad cops, their
illegal acts might be a small percentage of their
interactions. And often, when one cop is acting
illegally, it's rare for other cops around to restrain
the bad one. To stand by & do nothing when this
happens is to be a bad cop.

As part of my job I interact with local cops fairly regularly. I have not noticed that they go out of their way to "wrongfully charge people with crimes." They often don't cut people slack in enforcing the law, but that's very different. That's just my experience.

As far as other cops intervening when when a cop behaves badly, it seems to me that could get very messy if it became a norm, particularly in the kinds of spur-of-the-moment, high stress, dangerous situations when cops are often criticized for bad behavior. Imagine cops fighting each other while a suspect resisting arrest is able to escape. It's a nice-sounding idea in principle, but in practice it's more complicated.

 

[Heyo]

Having and using authority are not inherently negative things. We need people in society who have and use authority. The question is how it's used.

And the answer lies in their education and how they are kept responsible.
I don't really have to fear the police in my country (though I still feel insecure when they are present) but I know that many of them are right leaning - some of them so far that they are fascists. There are multiple groups under investigation.

 

[Revoltingest]

As part of my job I interact with local cops fairly regularly. I have not noticed that they go out of their way to "wrongfully charge people with crimes." They often don't cut people slack in enforcing the law, but that's very different. That's just my experience.

Personal experience is very dependent upon who one is,
& the circumstances of interaction. When not in "cop mode"
during an interaction, we don't see what they're like when
on the job, fearful, in a bad mood, or predatory.

My experience with cops is varied. I've hired several in my
business, & found most to be fine people. (There's a separate
thread about a violent lout I fired.) But as their employer,
I'd not see the cop side of them.
I've also interacted with cops on the job in the course of business.
Some have been OK, but most have been hostile & imperious
asked to do things, eg, stop blocking my parking lots so that
customers can come & go. They sure do resent a lowly civilian
trying to get them to cooperate. More such stories indicate that
they are definitely of the "serve & protect" mindset.

You know me....middle class, white, basic people skills, & living
in a low crime area. But if one is neuro-divergent, deaf, blind,
black, Indian, foreign, or living in the wrong area, one's experience
is likely to be very different from mine.

As far as other cops intervening when when a cop behaves badly, it seems to me that could get very messy if it became a norm, particularly in the kinds of spur-of-the-moment, high stress, dangerous situations when cops are often criticized for bad behavior.

Some local governments have legislated requiring intervention
by a cop who sees wrongdoing. Messy it could be, but we
should not tolerate cops illegally assaulting & robbing civilians.

Imagine cops fighting each other while a suspect resisting arrest is able to escape. It's a nice-sounding idea in principle, but in practice it's more complicated.

A hypothetical scenario doesn't justify cops standing down
when another is doing wrong. The real world shows us
examples where the supposedly good cops could stop
wrongdoing, but chose not to.
They should serve the public, not treat us as the enemy.

 

[Left Coast]

Personal experience is very dependent upon who one is,
& the circumstances of interaction. When not in "cop mode"
during an interaction, we don't see what they're like when
on the job, fearful, in a bad mood, or predatory.

My experience with cops is varied. I've hired several in my
business, & found most to be fine people. (There's a separate
thread about a violent lout I fired.) But as their employer,
I'd not see the cop side of them.
I've also interacted with cops on the job in the course of business.
Some have been OK, but most have been hostile & imperious
asked to do things, eg, stop blocking my parking lots so that
customers can come & go. They sure do resent a lowly civilian
trying to get them to cooperate. More such stories indicate that
they are definitely of the "serve & protect" mindset.

You know me....middle class, white, basic people skills, & living
in a low crime area. But if one is neuro-divergent, deaf, blind,
black, Indian, foreign, or living in the wrong area, one's experience
is likely to be very different from mine.

The area where I work is low-income and predominantly non-white. Some residents are certainly not fans of the cops, others have built good, respectful relationships with them. As I said, it's a mixed bag.

Some local governments have legislated requiring intervention
by a cop who sees wrongdoing. Messy it could be, but we
should not tolerate cops illegally assaulting & robbing civilians.

Of course not, but the question is how one "should not tolerate" it. Intervening in the wrong way makes the situation worse.

A hypothetical scenario doesn't justify cops standing down
when another is doing wrong.

Again, depends on the scenario. Cops are often caught doing the most egregious wrong in precisely the situations I described: in attempting to detain or subdue resisting or fleeing suspects. That matters when we think about what we expect other cops to do in situations where a colleague is misbehaving.

The real world shows us
examples where the supposedly good cops could stop
wrongdoing, but chose not to.
They should serve the public, not treat us as the enemy.

Again, a lovely goal in broad strokes. The question is in how they should serve.

 

[Revoltingest]

The area where I work is low-income and predominantly non-white. Some residents are certainly not fans of the cops, others have built good, respectful relationships with them. As I said, it's a mixed bag.



Of course not, but the question is how one "should not tolerate" it. Intervening in the wrong way makes the situation worse.

I'm willing to take that chance.
Good cops should stop bad cops.
The bad cop below was charged for assaulting the
good cop who stopped him from abusing a prisoner.
This wasn't the optimum result, but it's still far better
than all cops being bad cops because they enable
the worst of the bunch to violate laws, & evade justice.

Again, depends on the scenario. Cops are often caught doing the most egregious wrong in precisely the situations I described: in attempting to detain or subdue resisting or fleeing suspects. That matters when we think about what we expect other cops to do in situations where a colleague is misbehaving.



Again, a lovely goal in broad strokes. The question is in how they should serve.

They should serve with greater competence, honesty, &
dedication to the public...even segments of the public they
dislike, eg, blacks, males, jerks, kids, foreigners, people they
suspect are guilty of something, mentally ill people.

 

[rocala]

Some years back I read an online article about the experiences of an officer in the British prison service. He told of two things, firstly that the service did not work and secondly, that violence was the only alternative left for him and his colleagues. Now when this became known, lots of people got very angry and demanded change, to the violence of course, not the system. So the officers were left with a still broken system but nothing else. So they did what they had to do in order to survive - they turned a blind eye to the smuggling and use of drugs. If nothing else it kept the inmates quiet.
So far the result would seem to be that officer violence has been reduced but officer corruption, organised crime and the failure of reform have all increased.
It is easy to scream and shout at authority, but what have you got to replace it? I have seen lots of concern on RF but so far not one practical solution.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is easy to scream and shout at authority, but what have you got to replace it? I have seen lots of concern on RF but so far not one practical solution.

You should read more posts on RF. Many of us have
offered detailed improvement proposals, very often
without "screaming" & "shouting", eg...
- Better screening of applicants for better maturity, judgement,
integrity, legal knowledge, & physical fitness.
- Much more extensive training, eg, law, de-escalation, legal
detainment, neuro-diversity.
- More accountability of individual cops & departments.
- Higher pay to attract better applicants.
- Replacing a portion of the police force with social service types.
(It's not realistic to expect cops to deal with mental health crises.)
- Eliminating both qualified (state & local) & absolute (federal) immunity.
- Investigating cop misconduct by an independent agency.
- Compensating every victim of cop misconduct, not just those
with the wherewithal to spend years in court suing them.

 

[Left Coast]

I'm willing to take that chance.
Good cops should stop bad cops.
The bad cop below was charged for assaulting the
good cop who stopped him from abusing a prisoner.
This wasn't the optimum result, but it's still far better
than all cops being bad cops because they enable
the worst of the bunch to violate laws, & evade justice.

The binary, all-good/all-bad way of thinking about this isn't helpful. There are surely situations in law enforcement where it's clear what someone should do to stop wrongdoing. There are other situations where it is less clear, either because the scene is chaotic, happening very rapidly, there is danger, etc. I do agree cops could likely use more training on how to handle situations where they see another officer doing wrong. But that's an issue of training, not whether they are good people or bad people.

 

[Revoltingest]

The binary, all-good/all-bad way of thinking about this isn't helpful.

I never said they're all bad.
Just the majority are bad.
I've even posted examples of cops
handling difficult situations well...as
examples of how things should be.

There are surely situations in law enforcement where it's clear what someone should do to stop wrongdoing. There are other situations where it is less clear, either because the scene is chaotic, happening very rapidly, there is danger, etc. I do agree cops could likely use more training on how to handle situations where they see another officer doing wrong. But that's an issue of training, not whether they are good people or bad people.

There will always be situations wherein it's difficult
to decide what to do. But that problem shouldn't
stand in the way of holding bad cops accountable
for allowing civil rights violations by fellow cops.
If cops are willing to arrest, even violently, civilians
who break the law, they should do the same to cops.

The Blue Wall must torn down. As Reagan said...
"Officer Gorbachev, tear down this wall !!"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

- Higher pay to attract better applicants.

That's needed for the mental health field, but some areas in California have tried that and failed. It's an overall image issue. The cops are corrupt and dirty overall, and it turns out good, upstanding, honest people just aren't interested. People don't really wanna be cops anymore. They'd rather work with people not known for violence and bullying.

 

[Revoltingest]

eee

That's needed for the mental health field, but some areas in California have tried that and failed. It's an overall image issue. The cops are corrupt and dirty overall, and it turns out good, upstanding, honest people just aren't interested. People don't really wanna be cops anymore. They'd rather work with people not known for violence and bullying.

Change will be slow, but eventually the job
of being a cop could become a respected
profession. I'd like to see that.