Corollary to Transgender Issues: strategies to stop the violence

[icehorse]

Not all trans women have penises. In fact, if anything, many of them have the goal to have bottom surgery to change that fact, so to me adding "with a penis" is inaccurate and redundant considering the person is biologically male, and it's really not my business whether or not they have their penis or if they've had bottom surgery

Yes, I understand that. Although my worthy opponents on this forum have pointed out to me that bottom surgeries are fairly rare

So good for you that it's "not your business". The women I've talked to about this DO NOT WANT people with penises undressing in women's locker rooms and / or leering at women as they disrobe in those locker rooms.

 

[crossfire]

I lose track of whom I've explained this to...

I am advocating for solutions that protect trans people without damaging women's rights to safe spaces and privacy.

So it's not an either / or situation. We must find solutions that achieve BOTH.

Well, I'm waiting for your solutions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If we're going to come up with good solutions for everyone, we have to zoom out and consider the broader context. We cannot come up with good solutions if we ignore bad men. They are - sadly - very much a part of the situation.

Bad men are not the topic, and they've been doing bad things in women's facilities long before most of America even really knew anything about transgender people. Doesn't matter what happens, they'll still be an issue even if you require chromosome testing to use a bathroom.
This is what your "concerns" lead, and it's disgusting, because, yes, even cis girls are being told "papers."

Whether you’re trans or not, the gender police are coming for you too | Arwa Mahdawi

A man harassing a nine-year-old girl for not looking feminine enough shows the war on trans people is also a war on all women

www.theguardian.com

It was supposed to be a fun school sports event for young kids. Instead it turned into an altercation that went viral and made international news. A nine-year-old girl was getting ready to take her turn at a shot put event in British Columbia, Canada, when a belligerent 67-year-old man called Josef Tesar intervened and allegedly accused the girl of being a boy or transgender. The girl had short hair, you see, and apparently didn’t fit Tesar’s precise specifications of femininity. Since she didn’t immediately pass the Tesar test, he wanted proof that the girl was born female before she was allowed to continue. The competition was disrupted and the girl ended the day in tears.
There are, I should note, some discrepancies over the details of exactly what happened from the four adults involved: Heidi and Kari Starr, the girl’s mothers, and Josef and Krista Tesar, the grandparents of another child participating. Kari Starr, for example, has said Josef Tesar yelled “at length” directly at her daughter. Josef Tesar denies this and claims he “just” approached a person officiating the event to say he thought there was a boy competing in the girls’ event and asking to see a certificate to prove she was a girl.

After a girl beat their daughters in sports, Utah parents triggered investigation into whether she was transgender

The girl’s school opened the student-athlete’s enrollment records dating back to kindergarten, confirming she had always been female, a Utah High School Activities Association representative told legislators.

www.deseret.com

After one competitor “outclassed” the rest of the field in a girls’ state-level competition last year, the parents of the competitors who placed second and third lodged a complaint with the Utah High School Activities Association calling into question the winner’s gender. David Spatafore, the UHSAA’s legislative representative, addressing the Utah Legislature’s Education Interim Committee on Wednesday, said the association — without informing the student or family members about the inquiry — asked the student’s school to investigate. The school examined the student’s enrollment records. “The school went back to kindergarten and she’d always been a female,” he said.

Women are getting harassed in bathrooms because of anti-transgender hysteria

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

In a recent case that went viral, a cisgender (non-trans) woman was insulted while in a Walmart bathroom after another woman confused her for a trans woman, apparently because of her short hair. The incident, the woman said, led her to confront the kind of harassment and discrimination that trans people have faced in bathrooms for a long time.

Cis Woman Mistaken as Transgender Records Being Berated in Bathroom

She stayed cool, calm, and collected as she recorded a stranger's demand that she identify her gender.

www.advocate.com

"As soon as I got in, I went straight to a stall," Jay tells The Advocate. "About a minute or so in, I start to hear a woman being extremely aggressive. At first, I wasn't hearing exactly what she was saying until I started hearing her say, 'Trans, figure out your identity at home ... they better not come out of there. .. that's not allowed ... that's a boy, [and] they think this is [OK] because it's being taught in schools.'"
As Jay had recently cut her hair extremely short, she realized the woman was referring to her. "I don't know why I knew because I've never had this issue since cutting my hair," Jay says. "I take out my phone, and I start recording because my first thought was I don't want her saying I did something in the bathroom and accusing me of anything." The professional traveling nanny says her motivation to start recording was "more for my safety than anything."

The solution is for people to mind their own damn business.

 

[icehorse]

Well, I'm waiting for your solutions.

I think the first step is to agree we have a problem. Many on this forum do not agree with that.

 

[icehorse]

This is what your "concerns" lead, and it's disgusting, because, yes, even cis girls are being told "papers."

Again with the "either / or" mindset.

If the current solutions are not working, let's acknowledge that and keep looking for better solutions.

 

[Soandso]

Yes, I understand that. Although my worthy opponents on this forum have pointed out to me that bottom surgeries are fairly rare

So good for you that it's "not your business". The women I've talked to about this DO NOT WANT people with penises undressing in women's locker rooms and / or leering at women as they disrobe in those locker rooms.

Leering? Sure. Ok

I'm gonna refer to my post @ #82 and duck out now. Every time I write up a post addressing every point you bring up, you take one point of mine, ignore all the others and then just take it and veer left into some other tangent that's always about the same old NIMBY thing even after I've addressed it previously. I'm good on that. Hope you have a nice evening. Take care

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again with the "either / or" mindset.

If the current solutions are not working, let's acknowledge that and keep looking for better solutions.

I told you what the better solution is.
And that's not either or. It's real life, it's happening now, and you're "concerns" help fuel it.

 

[icehorse]

Leering? Sure. Ok

I'm gonna refer to my post @ #82 and duck out now. Every time I write up a post addressing every point you bring up, you take one point of mine, ignore all the others and then just take it and veer left into some other tangent that's always about the same old NIMBY thing even after I've addressed it previously. I'm good on that. Hope you have a nice evening. Take care

lmgtfy?

As for taking one point - when you make a series of claims and link them together like a chain, all I have to do is comment on the weakest link, that's how logic goes. If you feel your claims are linked together by logical ORS, let me know!

 

[icehorse]

I told you what the better solution is.
And that's not either or. It's real life, it's happening now, and you're "concerns" help fuel it.

It's not a very good solution.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's not a very good solution.

Yeah, it is, and it has been working for decades. It's only an issue when people decide to enforce personal views of femininity upon society in the name of protecting women.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think the first step is to agree we have a problem. Many on this forum do not agree with that.

Reading over things, I am reminded of a county fair concert/Fourth of July show (Blue Oyster Cult played is why I went). There was a lady there with her service dog, and evem without an identifying harness was clearly a trained dog as he was not panicking or freaking out over all the noise, and evem held still as trained during the fireworks.
I felt bad for her because several people approached her about hkw there's no dogs allowed in the park and so certain in themselves whwm they told her service dogs have to wear that harness. They were all wrong, and they all harassed a woman because they didn't mind their own business amd took it upon themselves to enforce what they think are the way things are.

 

[Soandso]

Reading over things, I am reminded of a county fair concert/Fourth of July show (Blue Oyster Cult played is why I went). There was a lady there with her service dog, and evem without an identifying harness was clearly a trained dog as he was not panicking or freaking out over all the noise, and evem held still as trained during the fireworks.
I felt bad for her because several people approached her about hkw there's no dogs allowed in the park and so certain in themselves whwm they told her service dogs have to wear that harness. They were all wrong, and they all harassed a woman because they didn't mind their own business amd took it upon themselves to enforce what they think are the way things are.

It's that busy body mindset. NIMBY!

 

[crossfire]

I think the first step is to agree we have a problem. Many on this forum do not agree with that.

I don't think anyone disputes that transgender persons face more violence than others.

 

[icehorse]

It seems clear to me that we're talking past each other at this point.

See you at the next rodeo

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think anyone disputes that transgender persons face more violence than others.

I'm not sure on that.

 

[crossfire]

I don't think anyone disputes that transgender persons face more violence than others.

I'm not sure on that.

Well yeah, it's pretty clear that some don't think that violence against transpersons is a problem, and some even endorse it in the form of endorsing gender policing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well yeah, it's pretty clear that some don't think that violence against transpersons is a problem, and some even endorse it in the form of endorsing gender policing.

Even though the victims who are ciswomen is adding on and piling up.
That story I pisted about that old shriveled waist of flesh and air, too bad he wasn't kicked in his nuts so hard he lost them over upsetting that little girl. People like that shouldn't even be around kids. But no, it's trans people whi are making the problems.

 

[Firenze]

Well yeah, it's pretty clear that some don't think that violence against transpersons is a problem, and some even endorse it in the form of endorsing gender policing.

If only those nasty trans, gays, blacks, hispanics, and poor people would just go away and leave us alone!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If only those nasty trans, gays, blacks, hispanics, and poor people would just go away and leave us alone!

I'm convinced the primary reason Jugallos are listed as a gang by the FBI is it's a subculture of heavily and predominantly poor people.

 

[Soandso]

I'm convinced the primary reason Jugallos are listed as a gang by the FBI is it's a subculture of heavily and predominantly poor people.

Wait what? Jugallos a gang? What crimes are they doing outside of drinking and partying?