Corollary to Transgender Issues: strategies to stop the violence

[icehorse]

Yikes

No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that a trans woman can be attracted to women, just like a biological woman can be attracted to women. Do you view trans women as men with penises who happen to be wearing dresses? I don't think that's how you view trans people, so why would you think that's how I view trans people?

Sorry for the confusion - I'm looking at this from the perspective of lesbians. If you are a lesbian and want to meet other lesbians, do you think you should be forced to deal with people who have penises?

 

[Orbit]

I disagree, I think my posts are speaking to the OP. Any solution that negatively impacts all women will not end well for trans people.

I fail to see how your posts address the question "How do we reduce violence against transgender people".

 

[icehorse]

In the real world we have gendered facilities and changing that is very expensive. People are resistant to change, especially when it impacts their wallets

I agree, it's not an easy problem to solve. But I think we must constrain our possible solutions to only those that do not degrade women.

 

[icehorse]

Let me know when I can safely use the bathroom and be my nonbinary self...based on some the replies here I might as well stop existing. Even tho in my eyes being trans is a spiritual gift and deeply connected to my spirituality.

See my post #90.

 

[icehorse]

I fail to see how your posts address the question "How do we reduce violence against transgender people".

We start by eliminating solutions that put women at increased risk. It's extremely common when problem solving that the solutions we consider are constrained in some way.

 

[Orbit]

We start by eliminating solutions that put women at increased risk. It's extremely common when problem solving that the solutions we consider are constrained in some way.

This is you slanting the thread in the direction you want it to go in--a discussion of ways to deny that trans people exist and how to further marginalize them using "concern" about cis women as an excuse. Trans women have been using the bathroom with cis women for decades. Hint: It's not about the bathrooms, just like it was never about the drinking fountains.

The topic of this thread is not about that. It's about REDUCING VIOLENCE against trans people. This: Fatal Violence Against the Transgender and Gender Non-Conforming Community in 2022

 

[Soandso]

Sorry for the confusion - I'm looking at this from the perspective of lesbians. If you are a lesbian and want to meet other lesbians, do you think you should be forced to deal with people who have penises?

I think trans lesbians should be welcomed in lesbian groups. If they aren't, I'd think that the group was discriminatory, and I would move on. If we are talking about if lesbians should be forced to meet trans women in a dating context, they can just say they aren't interested and move on. Everyone has preferences. No one is forcing anyone. Having to tolerate people is just part of life

I agree, it's not an easy problem to solve. But I think we must constrain our possible solutions to only those that do not degrade women.

Degrade women? I'm sorry, but being forced to interact with trans people doesn't "degrade" folks. I understand it may make them uncomfortable, but just like my example that you say is apples to oranges where I described how seeing black people kiss in public was illegal because it made white people uncomfortable, we got over ourselves and moved on. Now it's a normal part of society

 

[Orbit]

For those interested in learning more about the topic of this thread, here is a resource. The first step towards violence against trans people is to stigmatize them. Therefore reducing stigma is an early intervention.
Dismantling An Epidemic of Violence

 

[crossfire]

I'm talking about direct honesty and keeping it on the level.

If one is Trans, then identify as trans and stop maintaining there is absolutely no difference between a natural born female and one who went from male to female and vice versa, both in legal and personal venues, and stop the attempts to force others to accept what isn't entirely true.

There's nothing wrong or shameful with adding Trans male or Trans female as a prefix or suffix. It's just an expansion of gender and sex as things changes and advances in society.

Sports the same way, stop pretending there are no differences.

The concession is simply adding another category as it pertains to sex and gender issues and accommodate those changes in a proper and honest way.

I'm all for honesty. Yes, I agree there are differences, and ignoring those differences is not going to make them go away. One marked difference is in the level of violence that transpersons experience, for example.

Will adding another category as it pertains to sex and gender issues and accommodating those changes in a proper way stop the violence? Will it make X gender persons even more of a target for violence in an attempt to erase the dishonest?

 

[icehorse]

Great, now women who don't look woman enough are a "problem" to be solved. For $#@%'s sake. It's bad enough to go on about this non-existent "issue" of bathroom violence.

Just stop.

fyi, my opponents brought up the masculine-looking women issue, not me.

 

[icehorse]

This is you slanting the thread in the direction you want it to go in--a discussion of ways to deny that trans people exist and how to further marginalize them using "concern" about cis women as an excuse. Trans women have been using the bathroom with cis women for decades. Hint: It's not about the bathrooms, just like it was never about the drinking fountains.

The topic of this thread is not about that. It's about REDUCING VIOLENCE against trans people. This: Fatal Violence Against the Transgender and Gender Non-Conforming Community in 2022

I'm sorry that's a really dangerous strawman, you should be ashamed of yourself.

OTOH, you are following a very predictable pattern. TA apologists reliably resort to ad hominem and strawman arguments if ANY doubt at all is cast upon TA dogma.

 

[icehorse]

I think trans lesbians should be welcomed in lesbian groups.

Can you define "trans lesbian"?

 

[anna.]

Let me know when I can safely use the bathroom and be my nonbinary self...based on some the replies here I might as well stop existing. Even tho in my eyes being trans is a spiritual gift and deeply connected to my spirituality.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this, you'd be safe in any women's room I happened to be in should you ever visit SoCal.

 

[anna.]

Go find a bunch of women in the real world and ask them how they would feel if men with penises were naked in their locker rooms and watching them disrobe. I have asked

Fascinating

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Let me know when I can safely use the bathroom and be my nonbinary self...based on some the replies here I might as well stop existing. Even tho in my eyes being trans is a spiritual gift and deeply connected to my spirituality.

You keep being you, my friend, and ignore all the derogatory remarks about transgender people. You are a wonderful person just the way you are.

Peace and love, my friend.

 

[icehorse]

Fascinating

Oh please, for give me for being concerned for my wife, my daughters, my female cousins, my aunts, and my female friends. Many of whom have been assaulted by men.

So sorry... not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm talking about direct honesty and keeping it on the level.

If one is Trans, then identify as trans and stop maintaining there is absolutely no difference between a natural born female and one who went from male to female and vice versa, both in legal and personal venues, and stop the attempts to force others to accept what isn't entirely true.

There's nothing wrong or shameful with adding Trans male or Trans female as a prefix or suffix. It's just an expansion of gender and sex as things changes and advances in society.

Sports the same way, stop pretending there are no differences.

The concession is simply adding another category as it pertains to sex and gender issues and accommodate those changes in a proper and honest way.

Weve already been oved how that gets ciswomen harassed.
What we haven't been over is "separate but equal" is unconstitutional.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Oh please, for give me for being concerned for my wife, my daughters, my female cousins, my aunts, and my female friends. Many of whom have been assaulted by men.

So sorry... not.

I'm a woman, and I was assaulted by a couple of men when I was a teenager, but I don't share your attitude towards trans women. I'm not afraid of them.

 

[fantome profane]

Can you define "trans lesbian"?

lmgtfry

 

[icehorse]

I'm a woman, and I was assaulted by a couple of men when I was a teenager, but I don't share your attitude towards trans women. I'm not afraid of them.

since i've clarified my position dozens of times by now, i think i'm justified in giving you a one word response:

STRAWMAN