Cosmic Indifference: What do you do after you realise the Universe doesn't care?

[Yerda]

Focus on the part that does.

 

[eiskalt]

I suffered alot in my life. And i believe, actually know, that god did this to me. I dont really care about it though. You suffer, you prosper, this world is a giant up and down rollercoaster. I think its stupid to think in cosmic terms. one should think within his own family and perhaps city or county. but not countrywide or globally, that is not in your power and never should be to enforce your preferences upon the entire world.

 

[Nietzsche]

I think anyone here- regardless of their beliefs- may understand what I mean if you think about Outer-space. You can look up in the sky and the "universe" is out there, billions of light years in any direction. And here we are on this one tiny piece of rock hurtling round a giant ball of molten gas, and as tiny particles of organic matter with an infinitesimally small lifespan by comparison, we try to comprehend our significance amidst it all. why is the universe so peaceful when mankind is so violent? Is that a consequence of our egotism or do natures conflicts simply work on different timescales?

When I think of "violent", "using gunpowder and such to kill other tiny, useless not-mes" ranks far, far below "super-****ing-nova".

If there is no god, man has no special place or significance in creation. The universe was not "created" for us. We are simply here. we may be the result of underlying physical processes, but it does not carry any moral significance. I realise bringing this up in the context of atheism will necessarily be controversial because the term has such varied definitions but I wanted to discuss how people respond to the realisation that life has no purpose, meaning or significance beyond the fact we simply are here and have our own experience of pleasure and pain. that is our measure of right or wrong, but there is nothing really "objective" about it. its just how we evolved to sense of surroundings and what is in the interests of our survival as living organisms. our intellect is only one step away from that.

Maybe in thousands of years we will have spread out across other planets or stars, and found the secret to faster than light speed travel. It is possible, we may not make it that far, as we have no natural right to take our existence on his planet for granted. life is not a right. life just is. each of us can lose it, but the species may survive. And perhaps we can be convinced that it must be so. These are questions that those future generations will have to ponder as they go out into the vast open emptiness of outer space, and perhaps overcome the egotism of the adolescence of human history as we advance to become a global and then a planetary civilisation. what will our descendants say of us in a thousand or even million years time? Who will be there to greet us, if anyone at all?

I leave you with Carl Sagan's speech on the Pale Blue Dot. I don't have the answer, but it is none the less an interesting question of how we see ourselves in the context of a (practically) infinite universe and whether that it something frightening or liberating.

It's liberating. Nothing matters, you can do basically anything and it all has the exact same quantity of worth.

 

[Baladas]

I find the fact the universe doesn't care to be both liberating and to increase my appreciation for life's experiences, both great and small. The notion of an overarching purpose seems to somehow discourage attentiveness to aspects of life that don't readily fit into ones notion of what that purpose is.

In my experience, having a purpose is pretty much the same thing as wearing blinders.

This has been my experience too. When I took that plunge out of Christianity and found myself freer than I had ever been, it was a moment of surreal joy.
I wasn't beholden to any greater being.
I didn't have to agonize over my disagreements with scriptures or other Christians.
The game was over, and that's all it had been.
It was wonderful!

Purpose is something that we create...and who say that the Universe doesn't care?
We are not external to the Universe. If we care, then part of it does.
It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[George-ananda]

Cosmic Indifference: What do you do after you realise the Universe doesn't care?

If I were a materialist, I think I would have an issue with pointlessness and depression. However, I think I would rationalize how to make peace with that fact.

I now think that this existential angst comes from the fact that our true core is indeed eternal consciousness. We abhor being temporary and trivial.

 

[Covellite]

Just because something is small doesn't mean it is unimportant. Your cells are pretty small relative to you, but you sure get worrying about them in a hurry if they start replicating themselves wrong. Neurons are incredibly so, but every work of art ever created was the result of quite a lot of them managing to fall into a pattern for a little while. I think you're making the mistake of equivocating between "important" and "the most important". Not being the only or first priority of the gods doesn't mean they don't love you.

I have nothing to add - it's just brilliant.

 

[Jainarayan]

When I found out the universe didn't care about me, it had no effect.
I'd never given the matter any thought, so I wasn't expecting it to.

I collapsed in a corner into a quivering mass of protoplasm, crying my eyes out.

Then I drank mead and all was right with the world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's pretty much how I live as anything more than that requires proofs, evidence, and other things we just don't have due to our utter lack of understanding.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just because something is small doesn't mean it is unimportant. Your cells are pretty small relative to you, but you sure get worrying about them in a hurry if they start replicating themselves wrong. Neurons are incredibly so, but every work of art ever created was the result of quite a lot of them managing to fall into a pattern for a little while. I think you're making the mistake of equivocating between "important" and "the most important". Not being the only or first priority of the gods doesn't mean they don't love you.

I don't look at things that are small, but at things that are large knowing they too are small when we move to the next level. (Possibly even smaller things make) Sub-atomic particles build atoms, which build matter, which creates many things, such as living cells, which building into tissue which builds into organs which builds into organisms (or insert appropriate living thing being used), which builds into an ecosystem, which builds into a planet, which builds into a solar system, which builds into a galaxy, which builds into a universe, and then what?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

What do I do? I just enjoy life. When there is no further meaning- what else is there? I suppose you could hate life, but that isn't too ideal.

 

[Quintessence]

If there is no god, man has no special place or significance in creation.

An interesting way to start the thread, as I find the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the premise. The notion that gods designate a special purpose for humans emerges from the mythologies of a particular theistic religion, not the theism in of itself. I accept that there are gods, but I do not follow the stories that claim humans are somehow special. In polytheistic theologies, it's rather unusual to put humans on some sort of special pedestal. Just couldn't resist pointing this out, you know.

At any rate, with respect to the question, I'm similar to @Revoltingest here, oddly enough. I never had the expectation of the gods "caring," particularly since "caring" is a very human sentiment that is not applicable to the vast majority of the gods anyway (Sun Spirit does not "care" that it's rays are required to sustain terrestrial life on planet earth... it just does what it does by virtue of its nature). I left Christianity early enough that the "cosmic father figure" thing never took.

 

[Sunstone]

If I were a materialist, I think I would have an issue with pointlessness and depression.

I have noticed that the notion "materialists" necessarily have "an issue with pointlessness and depression" is a cliche of people who often enough believe themselves too insightful to be materialists. Yet, I think if the accuracy and strength of their insightfulness can be tested by the fact they actually believe old cliches about materialists, then it's a good thing they keep their day job, rather than attempt to become professional seers.

 

[Laika]

Cosmic Indifference: What do you do after you realise the Universe doesn't care?

If I were a materialist, I think I would have an issue with pointlessness and depression. However, I think I would rationalize how to make peace with that fact.

I now think that this existential angst comes from the fact that our true core is indeed eternal consciousness. We abhor being temporary and trivial.

It can be an issue as "nihilism" is related to materialism in a very crude sense of "eliminative materialism" where you eliminate consciousness, ideas and therefore meaning and purposes as illusion and depends very much on how you respond to egotism. As a materialist, even without a belief in eternal consciousness, I can still appreciate that our predisposition to hedonism and pleasure makes death a difficult issue and that come comfort can be taken from belief in an afterlife. It is however also possible to arrive at positive and life-affirming conclusions that we can transcend our own mortality through our consequences, treating the individual and our ego as part of the "whole" both in terms of being members of the species as part of a larger universe. But admitedly materialism, egotism and mortality are not a very good combination and are conducive to forms of nihilism and existential angst. the same problem comes up of course with theists who reach the conclusion that god exists and is evil or ammoral, so it's not unique.

 

[Laika]

An interesting way to start the thread, as I find the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the premise. The notion that gods designate a special purpose for humans emerges from the mythologies of a particular theistic religion, not the theism in of itself. I accept that there are gods, but I do not follow the stories that claim humans are somehow special. In polytheistic theologies, it's rather unusual to put humans on some sort of special pedestal. Just couldn't resist pointing this out, you know.

The lack of an abrahamic god, as creator of the universe creates problems as god is both the source of creation, but also consciousness and morality. Part of the legacy of Christianity is that it continues to have an effect on Liberalism even thought it isn't widely recognised to have religious roots such as in the shared concept of natural law. So I would actually be intrested to hear a pagan perspective on humans place in the universe as I do seem to be becoming "pagan" in rejecting many aspects of christanitys cultural influence but from a marxist-atheist direction. it's admittedly not an angle I have thought about much.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I can't imagine being so self-aggrandizing or deludedly arrogant to think that I would have any significance to the "universe." The narcissism and hyper-inflated conceit of many people always fascinates me and makes me chuckle - whichever fantasy-based rationalization they adhere to.

 

[George-ananda]

I have noticed that the notion "materialists" necessarily have "an issue with pointlessness and depression" is a cliche of people who often enough believe themselves too insightful to be materialists.

Well, I think you misinterpreted my statement to be what you were expecting/wanting to see. Notice, I said 'If I were a materialist' and I intentionally did not comment on how materialists in general feel. You read things into it.

I believe I personally have more of a 'big picture' concern than the typical person.

Yet, I think if the accuracy and strength of their insightfulness can be tested by the fact they actually believe old cliches about materialists, then it's a good thing they keep their day job, rather than attempt to become professional seers.

I will continue to post what I believe to be my 'insightful' comments.

 

[Sunstone]

I can't imagine being so self-aggrandizing or deludedly arrogant to think that I would have any significance to the "universe." The narcissism and hyper-inflated conceit of many people always fascinates me and makes me chuckle - whichever fantasy-based rationalization they adhere to.

Out of curiosity, what do you think of the notion that a belief one is "temporary and trivial" can cause "existential angst"?

I'm firmly convince that the phrase "existential angst" is most profoundly and accurately used by people in their early teens who have not yet realized their newfound feelings of "existential angst", "poignant meaninglessness, and "philosophical despair" are being caused by their body's sudden surge in testosterone production. In short, they are experiencing profound horniness for the first time in their lives.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Out of curiosity, what do you think of the notion that a belief one is "temporary and trivial" can cause "existential angst"?

I think anyone who says that hasn't explored the idea of endless existence to its logical end. Nor, have they realized that things are only meaningful or vibrant because they, and we, are temporary.

I'm firmly convince that the phrase "existential angst" is most profoundly and accurately used by people in their early teens who have not yet realized their newfound feelings of "existential angst", "poignant meaninglessness, and "philosophical despair" are being caused by their body's sudden surge in testosterone production. In short, they are experiencing profound horniness for the first time in their lives.

Without a doubt, terms like "existential angst" seem to be limited to people who suffer from limited temporal existence. All joking aside, there does seem to be a fundamental connection between fear of mortality and sexual drive/frustration.

 

[Sunstone]

I believe I personally have more of a 'big picture' concern than the typical person.

Hm...that's quite interesting. I myself think that, if anything at all markedly distinguishes me from most other members of our noble species of super-evolved spear-chuckers, it's that I don't believe much of anything markedly distinguishes me from most other members of our noble species of super-evolved spear-chuckers.

I will continue to post what I believe to be my 'insightful' comments.

Please do. Just don't pretend I have tried to prevent you from doing so. That would be childish.

 

[Sunstone]

All joking aside, there does seem to be a fundamental connection between fear of mortality and sexual drive/frustration.

That's fascinating. Could you elaborate on the connection?

As to joking, I was only partly joking about adolescents mistaking horniness for existential despair. Around the age of 40, I was befriended by dozens -- no exaggeration, dozens -- of young people, most of them in their teens. Like young people the world over, they were pressed upon by certain still new-to-them feelings. I noticed that they would often enough mistake the feelings commonly produced by testosterone (e.g. especially testosterone induced feelings of hollowness, loneliness, a desire to "hit the road", etc) for feelings of existential angst, existential despair, etc.