Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[YmirGF]

No....but the pigs love to roll the gems in the mud....

Now, now, Ben. Though I'm not a supporter of much of what you have to say, I'd never dream of likening you to a pig lolling about in the mud.

 

[YmirGF]

Yes, nothingness as defined by the OP is another dimension. But, the only evidence that we have in today's physics that this is so is Dr. Hawking's "Black Hole" math. And to a lot of folks, the possibility of there being another deminsion , "is" funny farm stuff. What you know personally Gnostic as a wise one, is the only thing that is real, nothing else can possibly be real. Until humankind understands the finality of what you know personally, humankind will continue to be trapped in ignorance.

Or become ossified in incoherent pseudo-mystical psycho-babble.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Now, now, Ben. Though I'm not a supporter of much of what you have to say, I'd never dream of likening you to a pig lolling about in the mud.

I know that YmirGF....underneath that atheistic belief of yours lies a real fellow mystic...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Or become ossified in incoherent pseudo-mystical psycho-babble.

Oh come now YmirGF....do you not converse with Vishnu?

 

[mystic64]

Or become ossified in incoherent pseudo-mystical psycho-babble.

I have been publically accused of being not sane . And lets face it I am not sane (I only pretend to be) ! Which means then that you guys have to support the set patterns of sanity and that I can be creative with those set patterns because nobody expects me to be sane (attempt to maintain/defend a set pattern reality, except of course the civilized social environment that RF management is attempting to maintain).

 

[YmirGF]

No problem mystic....there are many paths that lead to the pathless goal....all paths converge as they approach the goal. How many paths are there at the beginning? ... As many as there are aspirants, because each soul is a unique state of being and the end state is a ubique state of absolute being...yet these two are an indivisible unity at all times...there is no contradiction... All souls eventually will realize the goal....but the next step from the human stage is not the absolute state of oneness...but the angelic..

As I have said....there is no reason to presume the path of which I describe is any superior to another's...they all lead 'home'....and you seem to be traveling fine.. And there is this saying...better to follow one's own dharma, no matter how apparently modest, than follow another's, no matter how apparently divine.. All roads will converge.... I am beginning to repeat myself now so Iet me say I have enjoyed our exchange very much...I wish you all the best of that which is coming...but sooner rather than later...

If I may be so bold, I quite like this part, Ben. For so long now, I've consciously felt that I am a part of a "quickening", if you will, a rise in the consciousness of the human animal - en masse, that is happening in our world today. In some ways, I see myself as a co-architect helping to build this new vision of being and personal reality, of making it less obscure and much more practical to the average human. My route is to eschew much of the old jargon, dogmatic thinking and double-speak of bygone writers and to definitely avoid using terms that have obvious connections to existing religions. Likewise, I consciously try to avoid standing on the shoulders of great scientific minds pretending that what they theorize has a connection to what I am saying (ie. quantum mechanics, dark energy/matter et al). in a weak attempt to play on people's ignorance by appealing to their intelligence. Snake oil will always be snake oil.

My point is that we should never get so carried away with our thinking that we automatically rule out the regurgitation of others. As much as I dislike the thrust of much of what Godnotgod has to say there are the odd tiny kernels of truth that his weaves his webs around... like we all do. My fall back position, that never seems to let me down, is that of uncertainty. What rubs me the wrong way, personally speaking, in this thread is the level of certainty trotted out to the point of belittling anyone who dares to see things differently and disagrees with the promoted spin.

As usual, I'm pressed for time, so I'll have to leave things here.

 

[mystic64]

If I may be so bold, I quite like this part, Ben. For so long now, I've consciously felt that I am a part of a "quickening", if you will, a rise in the consciousness of the human animal - en masse, that is happening in our world today. In some ways, I see myself as a co-architect helping to build this new vision of being and personal reality, of making it less obscure and much more practical to the average human. My route is to eschew much of the old jargon, dogmatic thinking and double-speak of bygone writers and to definitely avoid using terms that have obvious connections to existing religions. Likewise, I consciously try to avoid standing on the shoulders of great scientific minds pretending that what they theorize has a connection to what I am saying (ie. quantum mechanics, dark energy/matter et al). in a weak attempt to play on people's ignorance by appealing to their intelligence. Snake oil will always be snake oil.

My point is that we should never get so carried away with our thinking that we automatically rule out the regurgitation of others. As much as I dislike the thrust of much of what Godnotgod has to say there are the odd tiny kernels of truth that his weaves his webs around... like we all do. My fall back position, that never seems to let me down, is that of uncertainty. What rubs me the wrong way, personally speaking, in this thread is the level of certainty trotted out to the point of belittling anyone who dares to see things differently and disagrees with the promoted spin.

As usual, I'm pressed for time, so I'll have to leave things here.

"What rubs me the wrong way, personally speaking, in this thread is the level of certainty trotted out to the point of belittling anyone who dares to see things differently and disagrees with the promoted spin." That which rubs you the wrong way YmirGF is actually a treasure when it comes to understanding the intellectual reality that other folks as individuals live in. And lets face it YmirGF, you are attempting to create and maintain a standard as an absolute that all folks should adhere to, which then means that you are doing the samething they are doing .

 

[YmirGF]

"What rubs me the wrong way, personally speaking, in this thread is the level of certainty trotted out to the point of belittling anyone who dares to see things differently and disagrees with the promoted spin." That which rubs you the wrong way YmirGF is actually a treasure when it comes to understanding the intellectual reality that other folks as individuals live in. And lets face it YmirGF, you are attempting to create and maintain a standard as an absolute that all folks should adhere to, which then means that you are doing the samething they are doing .

I'm not suggesting that people should adhere to "my method" though, so there is no absolutism involved, certainly not in the traditional sense of the word. If you want to label, continued unlimited growth as an absolute you are welcome to, but growth implies that no such absolutes exist - only endless change and growth. My own thinking is that hijacking scientific theory to bolster mystical understanding is a slippery slope. It's best to avoid the connections. People are welcome to do so, but my guess is that they will succeed in impressing very few. Again, it is a weak attempt to play on people's ignorance of scientific theory by appealing to the quasi-intellectual nature of the discussion. It doesn't add depth and only muddies the discussion by pretending a scientific component exists.

I will agree that I am aggressively promoting my own views. That much is a given. At least I have the decency to keep to my own views and not pretend that others are saying what I am - for the most part. I think most people are on glue when it comes to describing inner reality attaching all kinds of mumbo jumbo from a bygone era that is no longer relevant if, in fact, it ever was relevant to begin with.

 

[Runewolf1973]

"What rubs me the wrong way, personally speaking, in this thread is the level of certainty trotted out to the point of belittling anyone who dares to see things differently and disagrees with the promoted spin." That which rubs you the wrong way YmirGF is actually a treasure when it comes to understanding the intellectual reality that other folks as individuals live in. And lets face it YmirGF, you are attempting to create and maintain a standard as an absolute that all folks should adhere to, which then means that you are doing the samething they are doing .

The only thing which can be demonstrated with a level of certainty is the fact that we are all interacting in a complex manner.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If I may be so bold, I quite like this part, Ben. For so long now, I've consciously felt that I am a part of a "quickening", if you will, a rise in the consciousness of the human animal - en masse, that is happening in our world today. In some ways, I see myself as a co-architect helping to build this new vision of being and personal reality, of making it less obscure and much more practical to the average human. My route is to eschew much of the old jargon, dogmatic thinking and double-speak of bygone writers and to definitely avoid using terms that have obvious connections to existing religions. Likewise, I consciously try to avoid standing on the shoulders of great scientific minds pretending that what they theorize has a connection to what I am saying (ie. quantum mechanics, dark energy/matter et al). in a weak attempt to play on people's ignorance by appealing to their intelligence. Snake oil will always be snake oil.

My point is that we should never get so carried away with our thinking that we automatically rule out the regurgitation of others. As much as I dislike the thrust of much of what Godnotgod has to say there are the odd tiny kernels of truth that his weaves his webs around... like we all do. My fall back position, that never seems to let me down, is that of uncertainty. What rubs me the wrong way, personally speaking, in this thread is the level of certainty trotted out to the point of belittling anyone who dares to see things differently and disagrees with the promoted spin.

As usual, I'm pressed for time, so I'll have to leave things here.

Ok...so you are implying that your route of eschewing the 'jargon' of existing religions, etc.,is what all aspirants should follow, for the other is snake oil...

How does the Church of YmirGF differ from all other self opinionated religious positions......the competitors are selling lies/snake oil... ?

 

[YmirGF]

Ok...so you are implying that your route of eschewing the 'jargon' of existing religions, etc.,is what all aspirants should follow, for the other is snake oil...

No, Ben. If you go back and actually read what I wrote you would understand that is not what I am saying. I do believe that if human animals were less concerned about previous dogmatic thinking they might actually begin to make headway at a much faster pace. I do understand the need of some for their comfort blanket though.

How does the Church of YmirGF differ from all other self opinionated religious positions......the competitors are selling lies/snake oil... ?

It's not a "church" that accepts followers, Ben. I guess the main thrust of my commentary is to kindle that "spirit" within the reader so they do not have to rely on my words (or anyone's words) and that they learn to appreciate the vast reality of being they are a part of and a representative of. I'd also say to embrace uncertainty (for the umpteenth time) due to existing in a realm of infinite and unpredictable probability.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, Ben. If you go back and actually read what I wrote you would understand that is not what I am saying. I do believe that if human animals were less concerned about previous dogmatic thinking they might actually begin to make headway at a much faster pace. I do understand the need of some for their comfort blanket though.


It's not a "church" that accepts followers, Ben. I guess the main thrust of my commentary is to kindle that "spirit" within the reader so they do not have to rely on my words (or anyone's words) and that they learn to appreciate the vast reality of being they are a part of and a representative of. I'd also say to embrace uncertainty (for the umpteenth time) due to existing in a realm of infinite and unpredictable probability.

You defense is weak, hypocritical, and clearly reminds me of some self opinionated false guru wannabe... If you understand something of the esoteric nature of cosmic being....explain it explicitly in posts like mystic and myself did? Just repeating your mantra about how you dislike posters using leading edge science on the one hand and/or the ancient and esoteric religious traditions on the other, is shallow rhetoric that we've heard from you forever on RF...

So if you think I've misjudged you....prove me wrong and post about your understanding about universal zpe and nothingness and we shall judge?

 

[YmirGF]

You defense is weak, hypocritical, and clearly reminds me of some self opinionated false guru wannabe... If you understand something of the esoteric nature of cosmic being....explain it explicitly in posts like mystic and myself did? Just repeating your mantra about how you dislike posters using leading edge science on the one hand and/or the ancient and esoteric religious traditions on the other, is shallow rhetoric that we've heard from you forever on RF...

So if you think I've misjudged you....prove me wrong and post about your understanding about universal zpe and nothingness and we shall judge?

I've done so many times already, Ben and got nothing but drivel and disdain for my efforts. Are you seriously suggesting you can put your own bias aside... for a change?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I've done so many times already, Ben and got nothing but drivel and disdain for my efforts. Are you seriously suggesting you can put your own bias aside... for a change?

Sure... tell us about your meeting with Vishnu?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What rubs me the wrong way, personally speaking, in this thread is the level of certainty trotted out to the point of belittling anyone who dares to see things differently and disagrees with the promoted spin.

Yes, me too. Beliefs being presented as facts.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The only thing which can be demonstrated with a level of certainty is the fact that we are all interacting in a complex manner.

"Nuffink like a nice bit of interaction" as the cockneys say.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Or become ossified in incoherent pseudo-mystical psycho-babble.

There's a lot of that going on! "Ossification" is a nice word.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I'd never dream of likening you to a pig lolling about in the mud.

Yeah, it doesn't sound like a very "spiritual" way of referring to other people.

 

[YmirGF]

Sure... tell us about your meeting with Vishnu?

After doing a simple search of Vishnu and YmirGF I found that I have written about this already on a good many occasions.

From Jan. 5, 2007... thread The Day of Judgment

Ok, try this on for size. I have personally seen what some would call "god". This vision lasted for approximately eight hours and remains one of the most dazzling memories I have acquired in this short lifetime. The vision was of Vishnu laying on the serpentine Sesanaga. I will tell you this, it certainly seemed like "god" and you certainly could have fooled me and it certainly appeared to be the source of everything. You have to understand that worship was not required, if anything, it was discouraged. Simply being there was quite enough for "the boss" as He(she/it) doesn't get a lot of visitors these days.

You can perhaps imagine how hard I chuckle when I hear people tell me "You cannot know god" or "god is unknowable". "Really?" I tend to muse. I do wonder what it was that I have had the good fortune to see? I guess it only counts for the Abrahamic god and if that is the case, then that is truly sad. Poor blighters.

As I have gotten used to my view of "god" my viewpoint has morphed over the decades. Mysterious force? No, not really, although people have some pretty mysterious ideas about what "god" is. PS: I do not follow the Abrahamic version of god, nor would it ever occur to me to do so. It has always struck me as being a very stunted vision of this aspect of reality.

Two things stood out. One was the unimaginable love -- sadly, it can only be directly experienced. The second was the unbounded joy or ecstasy.

To totally fry your brain cells, I should note that I have gone well past this early "vision" of "god". I doubt anyone here could understand what I now directly perceive. There are no words to describe it really. Ah well, I don't claim to be right or the only one who "knows". Just something for folks to ponder.

From Sept. 23, 2007.. thread What is the deal with YmirGF? (an interview)

(dang... out of time... for the time being...)

 

[mystic64]

@ben d
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/two-most-dangerous-numbers-universe-194557366.html

Theoretical Physics has now come to the conclusion that we are/may never going to know truly in a scientific sense how and why matter exists. The force that is holding things together (Higgs field) is a very weak force (almost turned off) and the force that is tearing things apart (dark matter) is trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions times bigger than the force that is holding things together. The conclusion is that there is something going on that is outside of what we can measure (prove scientifically) and thus physics relative to true understanding can not go any farther. Ben d, it is going to take a mystic to solve their problem because only a mystic can approach things from a fresh perspective that comes from outside of the box.