Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[mystic64]

But there is no state where there is no movement to my understanding....the vibrations of zpe go to the infinitesimal wavelengths at the 'floor' of the 'ocean'...where energy density is infinite... And particles are only spherical standing waves of the relevant zpe frequencies that constitute them.. That's why in the LHC, when particles are smashed...the spherical standing wave dissolves into energy before that energy is able to reform into spherical standing wave of another kind in order to restore equilibrium of zpe in the spacial medium of the experiment...

There was no beginning to matter, for it is as eternal as energy...for as explained above...the so called particles are just a standing wave resonance of the same zpe energy that the particles arose from... The zpe is ubiquitous throughout infinite space...but it is not homogenous and there are gravity ripples and eddies throughout...

But do not imagine I think my model is the only one, or the best one even, to represent the reality behind gravity, inertia, cosmology, etc., for I am always learning and having insights that require modifications to the model.. So if your model works for you in gaining a better understanding of cosmology, that is fine......science is not about consensus...it's about understanding the universe in all its aspects..

I too am a mystic mystic , and totally understand about the visualization you refer to...it is an amazing faculty connected to intuition.. Some people have well developed mathematical 'visualization', others have a different kind of 'visualization'... we are each given the best tools for the task destiny has for us....which ultimately is an inner realization so all is unfolding as it should...

Ben d you are so fun to visit with ! And we are just two old mystics kicking things around just for fun. What started me on all of this a little over thirty-five years ago was an attempt to corollate the first verses in the Bible book Geneses with science. And as you correctly say , "These is no Darkness in creation." For some reason scripture calls movement "light" and non movement "darkness". And the movement that was created on the surface of the Deep was separated from the ocean (the Deep) of non movement. Therefore there isn't any non movent in Creation. Everything is moving. From there we end up with a cloud of "particle one(s)" in movement that is independent of the ocean of "particles one(s)" that are in a state of non movement. And for some reason scripture calls this cloud of "particle one(s)" in movement, "waters"? Whatever that means ? Then a part (lower part?) was dried up. Now utimately the existance of the "Deep" as a source of protomatter does not matter unless for some reason it is still in play some how, but scripture says it isn't. And, ultimately whether or not God did it does not matter either. What could possibily matter is whether or not there is a clue in this that would help to set up a model that would help in the understanding of the physics of Creation. From there we have the first question to the intuitive mind (God what is going on here ?), "How was the "waters" dried up to create the dry?" The answer was to accelerate a part of the "waters" through the other part of the "waters" until you reach a point where resistance become a barrior and when you breach the barrior you create the turbulance that creates the "suck" that causes the part of the cloud of proto-matter that broke through the barrior to condense into what we call matter. Now, all of that is pretty simple (that which is basically particle physics) until you try to understand the dynamics of the turbulance that creates the "suck". The reason for that is that when you attempt to create a mathematical model of the forces at work in the turbulance, that mathematical model presents a multi-dimentional phenomenon that takes a super computer to do the math . Which is why I as a mystic have quit trying to make any contributions to the world of physics, because they are still building the super computer that it is going to take to do the math . Personally I think that there is a short cut to the math and that things could be done simpler, but to explore that concept I would to have a working knowledge of the mathematical language of theoretical physics and the odds of that happening is pretty much "zip" (non existant) because I am old and they are busy.

Ben d, to me happiness is a good question to use to challenge/play with the intuitive mind with . The problem is that I have run out of questions except for the small questions that come up in the RF world of "minds at play". And to be honest with you I really do not want notoriety. That is a potiental messy situation that I would rather not deal with ! I am happy just working with the fancy guppy genetics project that I am working with and hanging out in RF's world of minds at play. And the other mostly little things that a retired fellow has to deal with from day to day. And also the yogi mind physics meditations that I am exploring.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ben d you are so fun to visit with ! And we are just two old mystics kicking things around just for fun. What started me on all of this a little over thirty-five years ago was an attempt to corollate the first verses in the Bible book Geneses with science. And as you correctly say , "These is no Darkness in creation." For some reason scripture calls movement "light" and non movement "darkness". And the movement that was created on the surface of the Deep was separated from the ocean (the Deep) of non movement. Therefore there isn't any non movent in Creation. Everything is moving. From there we end up with a cloud of "particle one(s)" in movement that is independent of the ocean of "particles one(s)" that are in a state of non movement. And for some reason scripture calls this cloud of "particle one(s)" in movement, "waters"? Whatever that means ? Then a part (lower part?) was dried up. Now utimately the existance of the "Deep" as a source of protomatter does not matter unless for some reason it is still in play some how, but scripture says it isn't. And, ultimately whether or not God did it does not matter either. What could possibily matter is whether or not there is a clue in this that would help to set up a model that would help in the understanding of the physics of Creation. From there we have the first question to the intuitive mind (God what is going on here ?), "How was the "waters" dried up to create the dry?" The answer was to accelerate a part of the "waters" through the other part of the "waters" until you reach a point where resistance become a barrior and when you breach the barrior you create the turbulance that creates the "suck" that causes the part of the cloud of proto-matter that broke through the barrior to condense into what we call matter. Now, all of that is pretty simple (that which is basically particle physics) until you try to understand the dynamics of the turbulance that creates the "suck". The reason for that is that when you attempt to create a mathematical model of the forces at work in the turbulance, that mathematical model presents a multi-dimentional phenomenon that takes a super computer to do the math . Which is why I as a mystic have quit trying to make any contributions to the world of physics, because they are still building the super computer that it is going to take to do the math . Personally I think that there is a short cut to the math and that things could be done simpler, but to explore that concept I would to have a working knowledge of the mathematical language of theoretical physics and the odds of that happening is pretty much "zip" (non existant) because I am old and they are busy.

Ben d, to me happiness is a good question to use to challenge/play with the intuitive mind with . The problem is that I have run out of questions except for the small questions that come up in the RF world of "minds at play". And to be honest with you I really do not want notoriety. That is a potiental messy situation that I would rather not deal with ! I am happy just working with the fancy guppy genetics project that I am working with and hanging out in RF's world of minds at play. And the other mostly little things that a retired fellow has to deal with from day to day. And also the yogi mind physics meditations that I am exploring.

You know mystic....I sometimes consider the universe itself as the ultimate supercomputer....in which case all secondary mathematical or inner visual simulations are apprehended as just another aspect of the ultimate....and thus an effect....which can then be a cause for a new movement and so on ad infinitum.. The mystic in me says this is awesome ride...and in the stillness of contemplation...the apparent separation of rider and ride dissolves and a awesome oneness beyond words is all there is....

 

[mystic64]

You know mystic....I sometimes consider the universe itself as the ultimate supercomputer....in which case all secondary mathematical or inner visual simulations are apprehended as just another aspect of the ultimate....and thus an effect....which can then be a cause for a new movement and so on ad infinitum.. The mystic in me says this is awesome ride...and in the stillness of contemplation...the apparent separation of rider and ride dissolves and a awesome oneness beyond words is all there is....

Me too ! The Buddhists have a concept called breaking the Third Dharma Seal. And, at least relative to my experience, when one steps through the Third Dharma Seal they step into a non conceptual workings mind reaiity and then begin to experience a processing speed that is so fast that time seems to cease to exist. Apparently attempting to understand things as a concept and as the relationship of concepts to each other because that is the way that it has to be done, slows down the mind's processer to a crawl. And the reason that folks can't understand and experience the mind of God (the profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind) is because they handycap the mind's processing potential with a conceptual workings mind protocol. Everything has to be related to a concept and the relationship between concepts. "The universe itself as the unltimate computer..." is you experiencing the mind of God (the profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind). And it all starts out with, "the stillness of contemplation and you are just along for the awesome ride." !

From there the "profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind" begins to share It's experience with you. And it all starts with, "the stillness of contemplation and you being just along for the awesome ride." From there the hard part starts to be, "not wandering off from the slowness of the world around you . And in order to do that, you have to become functional in both a conceptual workings mind reality and in a non conceptual workings mind reality either by being able to step back and forth between the two realities or by being able to be in both realites at the same time. "In this would but not of it", so to speak. I can step back and forth between the two mind realities, but being in both mind realities at the same time is taking me some getting use to . And now with me being the type of person that I am (relative to a conceptual workings mind reality) the question becomes, "Can I use this connection to make a contribution to the conceptual world around me?" So far the only answer that I get is "no", because the conceptual world around me is fragile in a bit of a brittle way. So, oh well . So, the fancy guppy genetics study that I am exploring as something to do and the how to maintain the perfect aquatic environment for them study that I have been exploring (I have always loved to play in small puddles and small ponds of water) are coming along quite nicely. And, the flight simulator (arcade format) Nintendo wii video game (Heatseeker) that I play to help maintain hand eye coordination, is contantly kicking my "tush" . Normal life and "Oh well."

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Me too ! The Buddhists have a concept called breaking the Third Dharma Seal. And, at least relative to my experience, when one steps through the Third Dharma Seal they step into a non conceptual workings mind reaiity and then begin to experience a processing speed that is so fast that time seems to cease to exist. Apparently attempting to understand things as a concept and as the relationship of concepts to each other because that is the way that it has to be done, slows down the mind's processer to a crawl. And the reason that folks can't understand and experience the mind of God (the profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind) is because they handycap the mind's processing potential with a conceptual workings mind protocol. Everything has to be related to a concept and the relationship between concepts. "The universe itself as the unltimate computer..." is you experiencing the mind of God (the profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind). And it all starts out with, "the stillness of contemplation and you are just along for the awesome ride." !

From there the "profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind" begins to share It's experience with you. And it all starts with, "the stillness of contemplation and you being just along for the wesome ride." From there the hard part starts to be, "not wandering off from the slowness of the world around you . And in order to do that, you have to become functional in both a conceptual workings mind reality and in a non conceptual workings mind reality either by being able to step back and forth between the two realities or by being able to be in both realites at the same time. "In this would but not of it", so to speak. I can step back and forth between the two mind realities, but being in both mind realities at the same time is taking me some getting use to . And now with me being the type of person that I am (relative to a conceptual workings mind reality) the question becomes, "Can I use this connection to make a contribution to the conceptual world around me?" So far the only answer that I get is "no", because the conceptual world around me is fragile in a bit of a brittle way. So, oh well . So, the fancy guppy genetics study that I am exploring as something to do and the how to maintain the perfect aquatic environment for them study that I have been exploring (I have always loved to play in small puddles and small ponds of water) are coming along quite nicely. And, the flight simulator (arcade format) Nintendo wii video game (Heatseeker) that I play to help maintain hand eye coordination, is contantly kicking my "tush" . Normal life and "Oh well."

Amazing mystic....that is pretty much how my life has unfolded also... I feel for ya... ...But that is destiny for you...I trust you will leave your mark...it is your art of life...

 

[mystic64]

Amazing mystic....that is pretty much how my life has unfolded also... I feel for ya... ...But that is destiny for you...I trust you will leave your mark...it is your art of life...

Thank you ! "I trust you will leave your mark...it is the art of life... " It is funny ben d, how what you said affects the deep conceptual workings programming of my personality programming in an emotional way. I have no childern and I have no friends other than my wife. No one is going to remember me. I have been for the most part a recluse all of my life and the exploring of the mystic experience is all that I have ever really done or wanted to do. It has taken over sixty years and thousands of hours of meditation experience, but I have accomplished and found what I was seeking as a mystic. And other than that I have never really had any goals. But at the sametime the concept of "leaving my mark" deeply affects the emotions of the human personality programming part of me because I am not going to leave any marks in a remembered way and my personality programming is a bit disturbed about that . "They will sing a song about you for a thousand years! (or forever)" It is funny how that concept is a part of our personality programming. The need to be remembered after we have passed on. To leave our mark. I guess that I have left my mark on things, but I have always done it in a way where others got the credit for it. After all who knows where things are going to drift and what it is that others are going to do with it . So, best could be possibliy considered, nobody remembers me. Just in case . In my case it seems to become, "It is not what you can do." It is, "Should you do what you can do?" And in my case the answer is always "No!". God says, "No!", my handlers say, "No!", everbody that is in the know that I interact with says, "No!". And lets face it, it is their world and not mine anymore, so best is to respect their wishes. So, I dabble a bit in RF as one of the minds at play and I do my best to stay out of their hair .

Ben d, here is an example of "No!": "Join RF and join the world of minds at play!" Why is that "No"? Because, the RF message board management would become "overwhelmed" with a large number of socially creative minds at play . So, "best" is that things just continue the way that they are !

 

[Runewolf1973]

Interaction at it's finest. This time it has taken the form of mind-numbing mystic drabble.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Thank you ! "I trust you will leave your mark...it is the art of life... " It is funny ben d, how what you said affects the deep conceptual workings programming of my personality programming in an emotional way. I have no childern and I have no friends other than my wife. No one is going to remember me. I have been for the most part a recluse all of my life and the exploring of the mystic experience is all that I have ever really done or wanted to do. It has taken over sixty years and thousands of hours of meditation experience, but I have accomplished and found what I was seeking as a mystic. And other than that I have never really had any goals. But at the sametime the concept of "leaving my mark" deeply affects the emotions of the human personality programming part of me because I am not going to leave any marks in a remembered way and my personality programming is a bit disturbed about that . "They will sing a song about you for a thousand years! (or forever)" It is funny how that concept is a part of our personality programming. The need to be remembered after we have passed on. To leave our mark. I guess that I have left my mark on things, but I have always done it in a way where others got the credit for it. After all who knows where things are going to drift and what it is that others are going to do with it . So, best could be possibliy considered, nobody remembers me. Just in case . In my case it seems to become, "It is not what you can do." It is, "Should you do what you can do?" And in my case the answer is always "No!". God says, "No!", my handlers say, "No!", everbody that is in the know that I interact with says, "No!". And lets face it, it is their world and not mine anymore, so best is to respect their wishes. So, I dabble a bit in RF as one of the minds at play and I do my best to stay out of their hair .

Ben d, here is an example of "No!": "Join RF and join the world of minds at play!" Why is that "No"? Because, the RF message board management would become "overwhelmed" with a large number of socially creative minds at play . So, "best" is that things just continue the way that they are !

I hear what you say and agree that the mystic's life is one of being in the world, but not of it.....'the kingdom is not of this world' taught Jesus... The saying I used about leaving your mark can be interpreted another way.....how about 'art' being a metaphor representing spiritual evolution....animal..man..angel..archangel...

Art is for a long time....
Life is for a short time..
So leave your mark
It's you art of life.. - anon

This world's judgement of the worth of souls is, except for ego gratification, is relatively unimportant.....but water finds it own level and it is the on high that determines who and what will endure and what will be washed away in the sands of time.....'for a long time' can represent forever... The irony mystic, is that those who would be first will be last, and those who are last will be first...the world is generally unaware, except on rare occasions where the on high is using a soul as a messenger to mankind, of the difficult work and sacrifice on the part of mystics for the benefit of the spiritual evolution of mankind.... Having said that...people are not equal and all those souls striving for respect, position, wealth, power, pleasure, etc., as life goals in this world, will, when the lessons are learned that this world's rewards are but froth and bubble shadows relative to the undifferentiated pure light of spiritual reality, move on the higher 'art' form of spiritual development..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Interaction at it's finest. This time it has taken the form of mind-numbing mystic drabble.

You do have a point...interactions between soul and the physical world brings about a certain result, interactions between soul and spirit bring about a different result...things is though, you can not serve both without serving one second best... Of course one can try...but sooner or later, one will take precedence over the other..

 

[mystic64]

I hear what you say and agree that the mystic's life is one of being in the world, but not of it.....'the kingdom is not of this world' taught Jesus... The saying I used about leaving your mark can be interpreted another way.....how about 'art' being a metaphor representing spiritual evolution....animal..man..angel..archangel...

Art is for a long time....
Life is for a short time..
So leave your mark
It's you art of life.. - anon

This world's judgement of the worth of souls is, except for ego gratification, is relatively unimportant.....but water finds it own level and it is the on high that determines who and what will endure and what will be washed away in the sands of time.....'for a long time' can represent forever... The irony mystic, is that those who would be first will be last, and those who are last will be first...the world is generally unaware, except on rare occasions where the on high is using a soul as a messenger to mankind, of the difficult work and sacrifice on the part of mystics for the benefit of the spiritual evolution of mankind.... Having said that...people are not equal and all those souls striving for respect, position, wealth, power, pleasure, etc., as life goals in this world, will, when the lessons are learned that this world's rewards are but froth and bubble shadows relative to the undifferentiated pure light of spiritual reality, move on the higher 'art' form of spiritual development..

Ben d, you are good for me ! I never thought of it as spiritual evolution or spirtual development. That concept has just never entered my mind ! To me it has always been a battle of overcoming personality programming. The return of the prodigal son comes to mind and how to overcome the reason he can't return. No matter how deep I take things it always comes up the personality programming that I picked up in my early childhood. And that programming lies deep in the automated (subconscious) part of my mind. I have reached the point as a yogi where where I can override the physical effects of this subconscious (automated) programming with my conscious mind, but I haven't been able to change the programming very much. The normal personality programming of the automated part of my mind keeps me in a lower hypothalmus neurological activity state. The meditation that I am doing bypasses the affect on the automomic nervous system of the programming by kicking things up into a upper hypothalmus neurological activity state. My mind doesn't give me permission to be happy, but my nervous system is in a happiness neurological activity state anyway . And when I combine that with stepping into a "non" conceptual workings mind reality I become the prodigal son that can return. By directly stimulating my autonomic nervous system with my conscous mind and then turning off the conceptual workings part of my mind, I enter into a mind state where God (for lack of any other term) and I can get along (hang out with each other) without the interferance that is created by the personality programming that is in the automated part of my mind. And the meditation that I am doing that affects the neurological activity state of my mind is also one of the lifespan extention meditations. The problem is that I do not want to live a long time as a physical world entity, but at the same time if I allow my normal personality programming to run unchecked it will make me sick and I do not want to be sick either .

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ben d, you are good for me ! I never thought of it as spiritual evolution or spirtual development. That concept has just never entered my mind ! To me it has always been a battle of overcoming personality programming. The return of the prodigal son comes to mind and how to overcome the reason he can't return. No matter how deep I take things it always comes up the personality programming that I picked up in my early childhood. And that programming lies deep in the automated (subconscious) part of my mind. I have reached the point as a yogi where where I can override the physical effects of this subconscious (automated) programming with my conscious mind, but I haven't been able to change the programming very much. The normal personality programming of the automated part of my mind keeps me in a lower hypothalmus neurological activity state. The meditation that I am doing bypasses the affect on the automomic nervous system of the programming by kicking things up into a upper hypothalmus neurological activity state. My mind doesn't give me permission to be happy, but my nervous system is in a happiness neurological activity state anyway . And when I combine that with stepping into a "non" conceptual workings mind reality I become the prodigal son that can return. By directly stimulating my autonomic nervous system with my conscous mind and then turning off the conceptual workings part of my mind, I enter into a mind state where God (for lack of any other term) and I can get along (hang out with each other) without the interferance that is created by the personality programming that is in the automated part of my mind. And the meditation that I am doing that affects the neurological activity state of my mind is also one of the lifespan extention meditations. The problem is that I do not want to live a long time as a physical world entity, but at the same time if I allow my normal personality programming to run unchecked it will make me sick and I do not want to be sick either .

Very interesting post, and good understanding of the underlying problems associated with transcending the lower mind....the return of the prodigal son. The Father spirit gave life to the soul when it entered into the clay Adam in Genesis...perfect son....and later Adam became the prodigal son...imperfect son.... Now is the time for the return to perfection....harvest time.. You would be familiar with the concept of the alignment of the seven chakras which allows the primordial kundalini energy to return to the highest domain/spirit of zpe from whence it originated.. The opening of the seventh chakra involves science beyond the physical, yet the principles are somewhat similar. The kundalini energy in the body is concentrated zpe or spiritual light caught in 3D space-time geometry (locked out of Eden)..but is liberated by radiating from the thousand petaled lotus into non space-time heaven....producing the aura around the top of the torso and head of the disciple during the process. I do not understand of course the details of the science, but it seems it has something to do with the reversal of spin of electrons so that the spherical standing wave energy that it is composed of, is radiated spherically outwards in every direction. Now the 'I' of the disciple is the incarnate soul...so obviously it can not survive outside the body..however when the original purpose of human incarnation has been fulfilled...in that the self awareness has been perfected to the point required to meet liberation criteria...the fruit of the harvest, ie. near perfect self awareness, is translated from 3D space time to non-space time heaven.. An angel is not a 3D space time entity...

Now I have only written what I presently understand in a style and language that is relevant to my experience...other styles and language expressing it differently, may exist for every disciple... I have mixed some of the traditions in my little effort, but it does not matter so long as one understands that the path gets very difficult during the transition from 3D 'I'ness to pure non 3D space-time awareness...for as you are aware there is a tug-a-war between the two states involved that can last for many years or decades or even lives.. But forewarned is forearmed and the beautiful hope of marching off into heaven is a novice's dream, they not yet being aware that...the 'I' that hopes for this will never make it... Ben D will never make it...but what and who I really am will... Unfortunately there can be considerable suffering wrt to transcending the 'I'ness as the 'I' wants to transcend itself and much confusion ensues... but I suspect you know all this...

 

[mystic64]

Very interesting post, and good understanding of the underlying problems associated with transcending the lower mind....the return of the prodigal son. The Father spirit gave life to the soul when it entered into the clay Adam in Genesis...perfect son....and later Adam became the prodigal son...imperfect son.... Now is the time for the return to perfection....harvest time.. You would be familiar with the concept of the alignment of the seven chakras which allows the primordial kundalini energy to return to the highest domain/spirit of zpe from whence it originated.. The opening of the seventh chakra involves science beyond the physical, yet the principles are somewhat similar. The kundalini energy in the body is concentrated zpe or spiritual light caught in 3D space-time geometry (locked out of Eden)..but is liberated by radiating from the thousand petaled lotus into non space-time heaven....producing the aura around the top of the torso and head of the disciple during the process. I do not understand of course the details of the science, but it seems it has something to do with the reversal of spin of electrons so that the spherical standing wave energy that it is composed of, is radiated spherically outwards in every direction. Now the 'I' of the disciple is the incarnate soul...so obviously it can not survive outside the body..however when the original purpose of human incarnation has been fulfilled...in that the self awareness has been perfected to the point required to meet liberation criteria...the fruit of the harvest, ie. near perfect self awareness, is translated from 3D space time to non-space time heaven.. An angel is not a 3D space time entity...

Now I have only written what I presently understand in a style and language that is relevant to my experience...other styles and language expressing it differently, may exist for every disciple... I have mixed some of the traditions in my little effort, but it does not matter so long as one understands that the path gets very difficult during the transition from 3D 'I'ness to pure non 3D space-time awareness...for as you are aware there is a tug-a-war between the two states involved that can last for many years or decades or even lives.. But forewarned is forearmed and the beautiful hope of marching off into heaven is a novice's dream, they not yet being aware that...the 'I' that hopes for this will never make it... Ben D will never make it...but what and who I really am will... Unfortunately there can be considerable suffering wrt to transcending the 'I'ness as the 'I' wants to transcend itself and much confusion ensues... but I suspect you know all this...

Ben d, you words and your mind presence is changing me , which is a good thing, relative to my reality! "But I suspect that you know all of this... " No I don't . I do not know any of that. What you are presenting seems to be way ahead of where ever it is that I am at. "Now I have written what I presently understand in a style and language that is relevant to my experience..." I can feel your thoughts along with your words which adds depth to your words. So I do understand what it is that you are saying. And because you are attempting to explain something that exists in a "non" conceptual workings mind reality using a conceptual mind workings reality, understanding can only be achieved by experiencing the thought experience behind your words and what you are presenting seems to be way ahead of where I am at. But, because I have now experienced the thought experience behind your words, I am now in a different place than where I was at. From here we now enter back into the world of words (a conceptual workings mind realty). In yoga science, what you place thought into is "activated" (takes on energy mass). Mind visual and feeling meditations are are examples of how this is done. There are seven main chakras (energy centers) in the physical body, there are three main chakras (energy centers) above the head (above the crown chakra), and three chakras below the body chakra (below one's "tush"). The object is to wake up all thirteen chakras (energy centers) and then maintain them in an extremely energized way. When one can do this and maintain it, they become for all practical purposes a "god". The only problem is that if this high energy thirteen chakra state is not anchored (used as a foundation) to the "Heart Energy Center/Chakra", then the whole system will eventually become unbalanced and fall apart along with one's mind . Six chakras above the heart energy center and six chakras below the heart energy center. The three chakras above the head brings one into the world of spiritual awareness and mind energy abilities and the three chakras below the "tush" are grounding chakras. Because, without the existance of these grounds the energy centers that are above the head will not take on stable mass. And last but not least, one's brain will take on neural density mass as the above the head energy centers are woke up if they are grounded properly. Now, this is all mechanical and has absolutely nothing to do with "enlightenment" or "God" . Originally the traditions that taught how to wake up these energy centers, as a whole or as groups, were "shaman" training traditions (Raja Yoga is a classic example) and they had nothing to do with "Enlightenment" or "God", all of that was added/mixed in later. What you are presenting ben d can be done by just waking up the heart energy center and you do not need the rest of it . And mechanically waking up the heart energy center automatically removes the conflict between the two states. It causes one to cease from eating from the "tree of good and evil" so to speak.

 

[mystic64]

When you attempt to understand the awareness realities of the energy centers that are above the head from the perspective of the awareness realities of the energy centers that are in the body you end up with the math/ the conceptual reality of what you are attempting to discribe. When you wake up the energy centers that are above the head, everything changes. Infinity becomes redefined and understood in a whole new way. Instead of looking out into infinity and attempting to understand it, you are infinity looking at infinity. Which then creates a whole new perspective to understanding. There is no mystery because you are what you are attempting understand.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ben d, you words and your mind presence is changing me , which is a good thing, relative to my reality! "But I suspect that you know all of this... " No I don't . I do not know any of that. What you are presenting seems to be way ahead of where ever it is that I am at. "Now I have written what I presently understand in a style and language that is relevant to my experience..." I can feel your thoughts along with your words which adds depth to your words. So I do understand what it is that you are saying. And because you are attempting to explain something that exists in a "non" conceptual workings mind reality using a conceptual mind workings reality, understanding can only be achieved by experiencing the thought experience behind your words and what you are presenting seems to be way ahead of where I am at. But, because I have now experienced the thought experience behind your words, I am now in a different place than where I was at. From here we now enter back into the world of words (a conceptual workings mind realty). In yoga science, what you place thought into is "activated" (takes on energy mass). Mind visual and feeling meditations are are examples of how this is done. There are seven main chakras (energy centers) in the physical body, there are three main chakras (energy centers) above the head (above the crown chakra), and three chakras below the body chakra (below one's "tush"). The object is to wake up all thirteen chakras (energy centers) and then maintain them in an extremely energized way. When one can do this and maintain it, they become for all practical purposes a "god". The only problem is that if this high energy thirteen chakra state is not anchored (used as a foundation) to the "Heart Energy Center/Chakra", then the whole system will eventually become unbalanced and fall apart along with one's mind . Six chakras above the heart energy center and six chakras below the heart energy center. The three chakras above the head brings one into the world of spiritual awareness and mind energy abilities and the three chakras below the "tush" are grounding chakras. Because, without the existance of these grounds the energy centers that are above the head will not take on stable mass. And last but not least, one's brain will take on neural density mass as the above the head energy centers are woke up if they are grounded properly. Now, this is all mechanical and has absolutely nothing to do with "enlightenment" or "God" . Originally the traditions that taught how to wake up these energy centers, as a whole or as groups, were "shaman" training traditions (Raja Yoga is a classic example) and they had nothing to do with "Enlightenment" or "God", all of that was added/mixed in later. What you are presenting ben d can be done by just waking up the heart energy center and you do not need the rest of it . And mechanically waking up the heart energy center automatically removes the conflict between the two states. It causes one to cease from eating from the "tree of good and evil" so to speak.

Thank you mystic..remember that much of terminology for the esoteric side to reality is somewhat arbitrary because it is beyond dualist space-time perception, so the most important thing is understanding the general principles.. The chakras are vortex centers of energy that allow simultaneous involutional (descent) and and evolutional (ascent) relevant energy flow between cosmic planes.dimensions. The seven laya centres (chakras) of the human entity starting with the lowest is the transitional centre between the elemental (atomic) plane/kingdom and the mineral, the second is the transitional between mineral and plant, third between plant and animal, the fourth which is the heart center is the transitional between animal and human, the fifth between human and angelic, sixth between angel and archangelic, and the seventh...the thousand petaled lotus...is the transitional between archangelic and solar logoic.. As Jesus taught,,,among men, there is none greater than John, but the lowest of the angelic kingdom is greater than John...so the goal of human souls is to be transcend the human kingdom, and that requires something less than perfection, but meeting the cosmic criteria of appropriate 'perfection'.. The chakras above the seventh concern stellar, star cluster, and galactic kingdoms, while the three below are the intra-subatomic, subatomic, and the atomic laya centers. One should not try and evoke energy of the lower three or the upper three, for it will hinder rather than be conducive of the real goal of transitioning to the kingdom associated with the fifth chakra....the angelic plane.. They exist, but do not concern human evolution directly.....we are dealing with a universal 'heirarchy', but actually it is not a hierarchy in the military sense, but a holarchy...big difference! So the point is that esoteric knowledge is one thing, but so long as it is only conceptual knowledge it is vanity...one need to evolve to the next kingdom and one can not stay in the body to realize that. Meditation that has the goal of stilling the mind will be quite efficacious over time to bring about the appropriate karmic adjustments in one's life and as a result bring about the allignment of the seven chakras.. This is usually quite a difficult time....depending on our goal (not many aspirants actually have the goal to ascend to the angelic plane in this life, most are in preparatory stages), and our karma ( the involutional descending energies and evolutional ascending energies (ida and pingala) may be quite unbalanced based at our starting point in this life as a result of past life tardiness).....straight is the path, narrow is the gate, and difficult it is, the path that leads to the kingdom...and wide and easy is the path to reincarnation with its endless suffering..

 

[mystic64]

Thank you mystic..remember that much of terminology for the esoteric side to reality is somewhat arbitrary because it is beyond dualist space-time perception, so the most important thing is understanding the general principles.. The chakras are vortex centers of energy that allow simultaneous involutional (descent) and and evolutional (ascent) relevant energy flow between cosmic planes.dimensions. The seven laya centres (chakras) of the human entity starting with the lowest is the transitional centre between the elemental (atomic) plane/kingdom and the mineral, the second is the transitional between mineral and plant, third between plant and animal, the fourth which is the heart center is the transitional between animal and human, the fifth between human and angelic, sixth between angel and archangelic, and the seventh...the thousand petaled lotus...is the transitional between archangelic and solar logoic.. As Jesus taught,,,among men, there is none greater than John, but the lowest of the angelic kingdom is greater than John...so the goal of human souls is to be transcend the human kingdom, and that requires something less than perfection, but meeting the cosmic criteria of appropriate 'perfection'.. The chakras above the seventh concern stellar, star cluster, and galactic kingdoms, while the three below are the intra-subatomic, subatomic, and the atomic laya centers. One should not try and evoke energy of the lower three or the upper three, for it will hinder rather than be conducive of the real goal of transitioning to the kingdom associated with the fifth chakra....the angelic plane.. They exist, but do not concern human evolution directly.....we are dealing with a universal 'heirarchy', but actually it is not a hierarchy in the military sense, but a holarchy...big difference! So the point is that esoteric knowledge is one thing, but so long as it is only conceptual knowledge it is vanity...one need to evolve to the next kingdom and one can not stay in the body to realize that. Meditation that has the goal of stilling the mind will be quite efficacious over time to bring about the appropriate karmic adjustments in one's life and as a result bring about the allignment of the seven chakras.. This is usually quite a difficult time....depending on our goal (not many aspirants actually have the goal to ascend to the angelic plane in this life, most are in preparatory stages), and our karma ( the involutional descending energies and evolutional ascending energies (ida and pingala) may be quite unbalanced based at our starting point in this life as a result of past life tardiness).....straight is the path, narrow is the gate, and difficult it is, the path that leads to the kingdom...and wide and easy is the path to reincarnation with its endless suffering..

Ben d, that was very well said! And you have now put into words why you are a head of me ! Well here we go again ben d, mystic john stepping into another cathardic cognitive leap ! And it seems to be turning out that I am on a different path than you are. I seem to have started out on the path that you are on, but a little over twenty years ago my path took a different direction when I met Lord Shiva. I do not worship him as a god or as God, we are just good friends. And although he plays well with others that are of the Loving Divine, he is also an independent. Basically, if one attempts to put things into words, I am a son of Shiva's that is a Christian and I am exploring my heritage . I do not know how else to put it. I have a very close and loving relationship with Lord Jesus and I have His permission to explore my heritiage as a son of Lord Shiva. The reason for this is that I do not want to be "God", I am happy with "God" being "God". Normally attempting to do what I am attempting to do would be extremely dangerous, but because I am under the guidance of Lord Jesus as my Master and under the guidance of Lord Shiva as my friend and father, and they both love me, things are not really that dangerous. And, because I do not want to be "God", what I am doing is not so much dangerous as it is just different. Ultimately the result will be the bringing of the "seven chakras" into a state of balance and stepping into the world of the Loving Divine with five of the chakras that are above the head being awake and realized. So I guess that I am learning the mechanics while indirectly achieving the "art" at the same time. Ben d, there is nothing else that I really want to do , everything else seems awfully slow. And technically ben d, you are doing it the right way. What I am doing is a longer more dangerous path that is fraught with peril because of the constant temptation of "POWER" !

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ben d, that was very well said! And you have now put into words why you are a head of me ! Well here we go again ben d, mystic john stepping into another cathardic cognitive leap ! And it seems to be turning out that I am on a different path than you are. I seem to have started out on the path that you are on, but a little over twenty years ago my path took a different direction when I met Lord Shiva. I do not worship him as a god or as God, we are just good friends. And although he plays well with others that are of the Loving Divine, he is also an independent. Basically, if one attempts to put things into words, I am a son of Shiva's that is a Christian and I am exploring my heritage . I do not know how else to put it. I have a very close and loving relationship with Lord Jesus and I have His permission to explore my heritiage as a son of Lord Shiva. The reason for this is that I do not want to be "God", I am happy with "God" being "God". Normally attempting to do what I am attempting to do would be extremely dangerous, but because I am under the guidance of Lord Jesus as my Master and under the guidance of Lord Shiva as my friend and father, and they both love me, things are not really that dangerous. And, because I do not want to be "God", what I am doing is not so much dangerous as it is just different. Ultimately the result will be the bringing of the "seven chakras" into a state of balance and stepping into the world of the Loving Divine with five of the chakras that are above the head being awake and realized. So I guess that I am learning the mechanics while indirectly achieving the "art" at the same time. Ben d, there is nothing else that I really want to do , everything else seems awfully slow. And technically ben d, you are doing it the right way. What I am doing is a longer more dangerous path that is fraught with peril because of the constant temptation of "POWER" !

No problem mystic....there are many paths that lead to the pathless goal....all paths converge as they approach the goal. How many paths are there at the beginning? ... As many as there are aspirants, because each soul is a unique state of being and the end state is a ubique state of absolute being...yet these two are an indivisible unity at all times...there is no contradiction... All souls eventually will realize the goal....but the next step from the human stage is not the absolute state of oneness...but the angelic..

As I have said....there is no reason to presume the path of which I describe is any superior to another's...they all lead 'home'....and you seem to be traveling fine.. And there is this saying...better to follow one's own dharma, no matter how apparently modest, than follow another's, no matter how apparently divine.. All roads will converge.... I am beginning to repeat myself now so Iet me say I have enjoyed our exchange very much...I wish you all the best of that which is coming...but sooner rather than later...

 

[gnostic]

Did I just wandered into a funny farm?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Did I just wandered into a funny farm?

Yes.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Did I just wandered into a funny farm?

No....but the pigs love to roll the gems in the mud....

 

[mystic64]

No problem mystic....there are many paths that lead to the pathless goal....all paths converge as they approach the goal. How many paths are there at the beginning? ... As many as there are aspirants, because each soul is a unique state of being and the end state is a ubique state of absolute being...yet these two are an indivisible unity at all times...there is no contradiction... All souls eventually will realize the goal....but the next step from the human stage is not the absolute state of oneness...but the angelic..

As I have said....there is no reason to presume the path of which I describe is any superior to another's...they all lead 'home'....and you seem to be traveling fine.. And there is this saying...better to follow one's own dharma, no matter how apparently modest, than follow another's, no matter how apparently divine.. All roads will converge.... I am beginning to repeat myself now so Iet me say I have enjoyed our exchange very much...I wish you all the best of that which is coming...but sooner rather than later...

Thank you ben d! To be honest with you, I am walking off a different person in a better way because of our interaction. You have been very helpful to me!

 

[mystic64]

Did I just wandered into a funny farm?

Yes, nothingness as defined by the OP is another dimension. But, the only evidence that we have in today's physics that this is so is Dr. Hawking's "Black Hole" math. And to a lot of folks, the possibility of there being another deminsion , "is" funny farm stuff. What you know personally Gnostic as a wise one, is the only thing that is real, nothing else can possibly be real. Until humankind understands the finality of what you know personally, humankind will continue to be trapped in ignorance.