buddhist
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by "literal" or not "literal"? Thank you.
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Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?
- Thread starter Runewolf1973
- Start date
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Nonsense. Sheer nonsense.
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AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
It wouldn't work out because FTL is impossible as far as modern physics is concerned.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Of course....but no intelligent person believes that modern physics has more than a beginners handle on what is, or is not, ultimately possible...And throw in the fact that they can only detect 2.5% of the universe with the state of present technology. Obviously NASA and the Pentagon are not closed to the idea as they are funding funding such studies.... Think how much of present leading edge technological developments were once used in science fiction novels and movies yonks before main stream contemporary physics understood it was possible...
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
The thing is though, we know mass can't accelerate pass the speed of light. It's experimentally verified in all particle accelerators around the world. No matter how much energy we put into propelling something in a given direction, we can't get it to light speed. It's like saying that one day we might discover how to hear sound in space. Of course, that will never happen because there's no sound in space to detect. Sure, we can detect radio waves and convert it into sound, but that's not the same thing.
Kinetic Energy of an object rises to infinity as a mass approaches light speed. Therefore, inertia rises to infinity (energy has inertia) as an object approaches light speed.
At best, there may be a way to bypass it by warp drive where space is compressed in front of the object that's moving. But that's technically not moving faster than light, though it would grant the practicality of what FTL travel would grant if it were possible.
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The problem with your thinking is that you are stuck on dinosaur science models...
I am talking about post modern science....old science only deals with 2.5% of the universe...advanced science research going on now pushes this level up considerably. Zpe is an ocean of energy frequency continuum that goes down to the infinitesimal wavelength that in principle could provide infinite energy... . The key to the problem you raise is that that the zpe, which is the source of inertia, can be engineered to mitigate or remove it...and to produce artificial gravity for propulsion.. The space craft is not compressed because it is just following the gravity bubble in front....But enough..anyone who says it can't be done because contemporary science theory models won't allow it, will have to wait to see it before they believe it...and that's fine...
godnotgod
Thou art That
Those two lines from The Heart Sutra are telling us that form has no self-nature, as all forms are subject to dependent origination. So if form has no self nature, what actual delineation is there that can define it? Where is that which distinguishes 'this' ie your form, from 'that' ie' 'The Andromeda Galaxy', or any other form? If there are no such actual distinctions, that is to say, that apparent distinctions are in reality, illusions, then underneath such distinctions there must lie an underlying seamless reality, one that is formless and singular. Some call that reality The Unified Field, or the ground of all being.
When you try to make it a point that you are 'over here' and the Andromeda Galaxy 'over there', you are failing to take into account the background that cements both of them (as well as everything else_ together as one, and that all forms which appear against this background have no self-nature. IOW, the projection that we see as 'The Universe' is just an illusion of the background. It is the background that is the only true Reality. The foreground is mere play.
If you still feel this is 'sheer nonsense', then please provide a brief critique to demonstrate the erroneous logic involved.
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Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
As a result of what? How does pure nothingness result in "play"?
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
The problem with your thinking is that you are stuck on dinosaur science models...
But enough..anyone who says it can't be done because contemporary science theory models won't allow it, will have to wait to see it before they believe it...and that's fine...
All science is science. There's no dinosaur science (except for science about actual dinosaurs) or advanced post-modern science. There's just science.
Zero Point Energy doesn't provide infinite energy. Infinitesimal wavelength doesn't equate to infinite energy.
Pumping enough energy into a system where the energy density increases would result in a black hole long before it ever "reaches" infinity. Remember, energy creates gravity. It's misleading to say that infinity energy is needed for FTL travel. Kinetic Energy rises to infinity as a mass approaches that speed, but that doesn't necessarily mean infinity energy would actually get us there.
And what? Removing inertia?! I'm gonna need a citation on how that would be done.
godnotgod
Thou art That
'Nothingness' refers to non-materiality. Consciousness is the ground of all being.
mystic64
nolonger active
Read Dr. Hawking's math on "Black Hole" physics
. Those that said that Dr. Hawking's "Black Hole" math was wrong were using the same argument that you are using. And what you are saying that will create a black hole, will not create a black hole. What you will create is a "Worm Hole", under certain circumstances, but not a black hole . A black hole is created when molecular motion reaches or is very close to reaching "zero". At that point mass leaves measurable reality and goes some place else. The speed of light is the other end of the continum that is our measurable reality. When things reach the speed of light they go some place else that is different than where things go at "zero" molecular motion. And yes you can not accelerate something to the speed of light in one jump, but you can accelerate something to the speed of light in a series of jumps. The problem is, "Where does it go?" And, "What happens to it when it goes there?" There is a slower "velocity timeframe" than what we call measurable reality (our velocity timeframe) and there is a faster "velocity timeframe" than what we call measurable reality (our velocity timeframe"). Andromeda, your physics math says that there is no faster velocity timeframe and no slower velocity timeframe, and that our velocity timeframe is the only velocity timeframe. Dr. Hawking's black hole math proves that there is a "slower velocity timeframe" . Your math says that it is impossible for matter to slow down enough to leave measurable reality and your math says that it is impossible for matter to speed up fast enough to leave our measurable reality. Dr. Hawking's black hole math proves that you are wrong. Which is why, folks like you, consider Dr. Hawking's black hole math invalid/wrong.
mystic64
nolonger active
Hi Ben
. Thanks for your input and the website. But , when something (mass) reaches an almost "zero" molecular motion it does disappear. And when something (mass) reaches light speed it does disappear. Which is why the folks that experiment with colliders keep things well under the speed of light. But like Dr. Hawking says, "The mass is not lost, it just goes into a different dimension." Which is why the object of travel through space over long distances rapidly is to do it without acutually leaving our so called dimension or at least taking a piece of it with us. Otherwise space vehicles could end up a "big bang" upon entering into a faster dimension like things do when they enter our dimension from a slower dimension.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
You really are a dinosaur.when it comes to leading edge science....
https://www.google.com.au/patents/U...ved=0ahUKEwja5LDhvo7KAhWBg6YKHbQWBrgQ6AEIGzAA
Patent
Publication number US5590031 A
Publication type Grant
Application number US 08/281,271
Publication date 31 Dec 1996
Filing date 27 Jul 1994
Priority date 27 Jul 1994
Fee status Lapsed
Publication number 08281271, 281271, US 5590031 A, US 5590031A, US-A-5590031, US5590031 A, US5590031A
Inventors Franklin B. Mead, Jr., Jack Nachamkin
Original Assignee Mead, Jr.; Franklin B., Nachamkin; Jack
System for converting electromagnetic radiation energy to electrical energy
Abstract
A system is disclosed for converting high frequency zero point electromagnetic radiation energy to electrical energy. The system includes a pair of dielectric structures which are positioned proximal to each other and which receive incident zero point electromagnetic radiation. The volumetric sizes of the structures are selected so that they resonate at a frequency of the incident radiation. The volumetric sizes of the structures are also slightly different so that the secondary radiation emitted therefrom at resonance interfere with each other producing a beat frequency radiation which is at a much lower frequency than that of the incident radiation and which is amenable to conversion to electrical energy. An antenna receives the beat frequency radiation. The beat frequency radiation from the antenna is transmitted to a converter via a conductor or waveguide and converted to electrical energy having a desired voltage and waveform.
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The existence of zero point electromagnetic radiation was discovered in 1958 by the Dutch physicist M. J. Sparnaay. Mr. Sparnaay continued the experiments carried out by Hendrik B. G. Casimir in 1948 which showed the existence of a force between two uncharged parallel plates which arose from electromagnetic radiation surrounding the plates in a vacuum. Mr. Sparnaay discovered that the forces acting on the plates arose from not only thermal radiation but also from another type of radiation now known as classical electromagnetic zero point radiation. Mr. Sparnaay determined that not only did the zero point electromagnetic radiation exist in a vacuum but also that it persisted even at a temperature of absolute zero. Because it exists in a vacuum, zero point radiation is homogeneous and isotropic as well as ubiquitous. In addition, since zero point radiation is also invariant with respect to Lorentz transformation, the zero point radiation spectrum has the characteristic that the intensity of the radiation at any frequency is proportional to the cube of that frequency. Consequently, the intensity of the radiation increases without limit as the frequency increases resulting in an infinite energy density for the radiation spectrum. With the introduction of the zero point radiation into the classical electron theory, a vacuum at a temperature of absolute zero is no longer considered empty of all electromagnetic fields. Instead, the vacuum is now considered as filled with randomly fluctuating fields having the zero point radiation spectrum. The special characteristics of the zero point radiation which are that it has a virtually infinite energy density and that it is ubiquitous (even present in outer space) make it very desirable as an energy source. However, because high energy densities exist at very high radiation frequencies and because conventional methods are only able to convert or extract energy effectively or efficiently only at lower frequencies at which zero point radiation has relatively low energy densities, effectively tapping this energy source has been believed to be unavailable using conventional techniques for converting electromagnetic energy to electrical or other forms of easily useable energy. Consequently, zero point electromagnetic radiation energy which may potentially be used to power interplanetary craft as well as provide for society's other needs has remained unharnessed.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
It is being looked into...best read this....
http://www.padrak.com/ine/ZPEFLIGHT.html
CAN THE VACUUM BE ENGINEERED FOR SPACEFLIGHT APPLICATIONS?
OVERVIEW OF THEORY AND EXPERIMENTS
By H. E. Puthoff, Ph.D.
Presented at:
NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Workshop
August 12-14, 1997
NASA Lewis Research Center
Cleveland, OH
ABSTRACT
Quantum theory predicts, and experiments verify, that empty space (the vacuum) contains an enormous residual background energy known as zero-point energy (ZPE). Originally thought to be of significance only for such esoteric concerns as small perturbations to atomic emission processes, it is now known to play a role in large-scale phenomena of interest to technologists as well, such as the inhibition of spontaneous emission, the generation of short-range attractive forces (e.g., the Casimir force), and the possibility of accounting for sonoluminescence phenomena. ZPE topics of interest for spaceflight applications range from fundamental issues (where does inertia come from, can it be controlled?), through laboratory attempts to extract useful energy from vacuum fluctuations (can the ZPE be "mined" for practical use?), to scientifically-grounded extrapolations concerning "engineering the vacuum" (is "warp-drive" space propulsion a scientific possibility?). Recent advances in research into the physics of the underlying ZPE indicate the possibility of potential application in all these areas of interest.
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The possibility of altering mass with a view to easing the energy burden of future spaceships has been seriously considered by the Advanced Concepts Office of the Propulsion Directorate of the Phillips Laboratory at Edwards Air Force Base. Gravity researcher Robert Forward accepted an assignment to review this concept. His deliverable product was to recommend a broad, multi-pronged effort involving laboratories from around the world to investigate the inertia model experimentally.
After a one-year investigation Forward finished his study and submitted his report to the Air Force, who published it under the title Mass Modification Experiment Definition Study. The Abstract reads in part:
".... Many researchers see the vacuum as a central ingredient of 21st-Century physics. Some even believe the vacuum may be harnessed to provide a limitless supply of energy. This report summarizes an attempt to find an experiment that would test the Haisch, Rueda and Puthoff (HRP) conjecture that the mass and inertia of a body are induced effects brought about by changes in the quantum-fluctuation energy of the vacuum.... It was possible to find an experiment that might be able to prove or disprove that the inertial mass of a body can be altered by making changes in the vacuum surrounding the body."
With regard to action items, Forward in fact recommends a ranked list of not one but four experiments to be carried out to address the ZPF-inertia concept and its broad implications. The recommendations included investigation of the proposed "sub-cosmic-ray energy device" mentioned earlier, and the investigation of an hypothesized "inertia-wind" effect proposed by our laboratory and possibly detected in early experimental work by Forward and Miller, though the latter possibility is highly speculative at this point.
ENGINEERING THE VACUUM FOR "WARP DRIVE"
Perhaps one of the most speculative, but nonetheless scientifically-grounded, proposals of all is the so-called Alcubierre Warp Drive. Taking on the challenge of determining whether Warp Drive a la Star Trek was a scientific possibility, general relativity theorist Miguel Alcubierre of the University of Wales set himself the task of determining whether faster-than-light travel was possible within the constraints of standard theory. Although such clearly could not be the case in the flat space of special relativity, general relativity permits consideration of altered spacetime metrics where such a possibility is not a priori ruled out. Alcubierre's further self-imposed constraints on an acceptable solution included the requirements that no net time distortion should occur (breakfast on Earth, lunch on Alpha Centauri, and home for dinner with your wife and children, not your great-great-great grandchildren), and that the occupants of the spaceship were not to be flattened against the bulkhead by unconscionable accelerations.
A solution meeting all of the above requirements was found and published by Alcubierre in Classical and Quantum Gravity in 1994. The solution discovered by Alcubierre involved the creation of a local distortion of spacetime such that spacetime is expanded behind the spaceship, contracted ahead of it, and yields a hypersurfer-like motion faster than the speed of light as seen by observers outside the disturbed region. In essence, on the outgoing leg of its journey the spaceship is pushed away from Earth and pulled towards its distant destination by the engineered local expansion of spacetime itself.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Read the paper by Puthoff I posted above for the dinosaur on engineering the vacuum....you will see there is science suggesting it can be done...inertia managed....gravity created and removed... No this is not proven but as I said...present orthodox science is already a dinosaur in some areas....military science around the world are yonks ahead....you will not see it in the public domain tho...Hi Ben
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
What does this consciousness you refer to consist of? Can you explain what consciousness is?
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
At the end of the day, this needs to be experimentally verified. A bunch of math on it's own doesn't prove anything. Experiments > math, and there's no current experiments or observations that show that light speed is attainable.
Math is used to describe things and predict things. But it doesn't prove anything about the physical world on it's own.
I'm not gonna ignore the thousands of experiments that have been conducted just because a popular figure in science says they're wrong. If Dr. Hawking's math is so right, then where is the experimental evidence?
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AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
I already agreed that this is theoretically possible. Warp Drive would be a sort of bypass of the cosmic speed limit, but it's not true FTL travel, technically speaking. Rather, the distance ahead of the ship, effectively, is being shortened. For a distant observer, it would appear FTL, but it wouldn't truly be. I already said this before, so why are you posting it for me to read?
This also, from what I understand, doesn't require infinite energy.
Also, infinite energy density =/= infinite energy.
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godnotgod
Thou art That
I don't think Pure Consciousness, Being, The Absolute, That, Ultimate Reality, etc., can be explained in rational terms. It is experiential, and can only be pointed to or 'defined' in negative terms, that is to say, what it is not. The pathway is not the discursive mind, but the intuitive mind. Discursive, or 'Monkey' mind must first be subdued in order that Big Mind comes into play. In one of the videos I posted, physicist John Hagelin is pointing to Consciousness as none other than The Unified Field, The Ground of all Being. It does not 'consist' of anything, as it is non-material in character. Nothingness equates to it.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Even allowing for a cutoff of zpe frequency before infinite....the approaching energy density in infinite space is infinite energy...(I don't accept a finite universe)
The Unified Field — the zero point vacuum of spacetime — is infinite in its energy potential. Quantum physics tells us that every quantum particle has an infinite potential of possibilities as to when and where it will manifest (and only comes into local manifestation, or "collapses the probability field", when we put our attention on it — the consciousness/energy interplay). Quantum physics also theorizes that contained within every cubic centimeter (a mere small sugar cube in size) there is an approximate energy density/mass of 1094 grams (10 with 94 zeros following it). That's 39 orders-of-magnitude more mass/energy than the entire known Universe in every cubic centimeter! Suffice it to say, when you add up all the cubic centimeters that make up the entire known Universe the total amount of energy is of such an incomprehensible magnitude we might as well consider it infinite.
http://cosmometry.net/infinite-energy-potential