Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[Papoon]

The Tao the Ching was written by Lao Tzu on the request of a gatekeeper who talked him out of suicide.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Sunyata is the state of mind empty of thought...a still mind free of thought..... Given a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...there are numerous names given to this state depending on the religious tradition......liberation, moksha, salvation, cosmic consciousness, god consciousness, etc...

No, sunyata has a specific meaning, it means empty of inherent or independent existence. Conditionality. It's definitely not cosmic consciousness or god consciousness.
This article explains it quite well: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lewis...misunderstood-word-in-buddhism_b_2769189.html

Possibly you are confusing Buddhist teachings with Hindu teachings, but conflating them only leads to muddle and confusion. Sunyata is not Brahman!

 

[Papoon]

No, sunyata has a specific meaning, it means empty of inherent or independent existence. Conditionality. It's definitely not cosmic consciousness or god consciousness.
This article explains it quite well: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lewis...misunderstood-word-in-buddhism_b_2769189.html

I have spoken with Lamas who said a better word is relativity. There are no things or entities, only relationships.
The common misunderstanding is the perfect example of reification.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I have spoken with Lamas who said a better word is relativity. There are no things or entities, only relationships.

That's an interesting way of looking at conditionality. Here's another perspective: https://bodhileaf.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/understanding-interbeing/

 

[Papoon]

i.e. not 'the void', but 'voidness', as a qualification of phenomena.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

i.e. not 'the void', but 'voidness', as a qualification of phenomena.

Yes, phenomena have the characteristic of emptiness. As The Heart Sutra explains consciousness and the other aggregates are characterised by emptiness.

 

[Papoon]

That's an interesting way of looking at conditionality. Here's another perspective: https://bodhileaf.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/understanding-interbeing/

. Exactly.
Everything is everything else

 

[Papoon]

Yes, phenomena have the characteristic of emptiness. As The Heart Sutra explains consciousness and the other aggregates are characterised by emptiness.

Now add the essential instruction of the Diamond Sutra - "be that which passes through everything".

Succinct.

 

[godnotgod]

. Exactly.
Everything is everything else

Now add the essential instruction of the Diamond Sutra - "be that which passes through everything".

Succinct.

So if everything is everything else, and if one is that which passes through everything, does this apply to consciousness as well? That is to say, does consciousness permeate everything in the sense of being omniscient and universal?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

and the distortion arises when said non-existent seer returns to the world of duality.... hence their descriptions are less than perfect...

That's probably the effect of the mushrooms wearing off.

 

[Papoon]

So if everything is everything else, and if one is that which passes through everything, does this apply to consciousness as well? That is to say, does consciousness permeate everything in the sense of being omniscient and universal?

I'm not sure. Haven't had coffee for hours, and the champagne is pleasant but not strictly psychedelic

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, phenomena have the characteristic of emptiness. As The Heart Sutra explains consciousness and the other aggregates are characterised by emptiness.

And 'sunyata', as you explained, 'means empty of inherent or independent existence', which, according to The Heart Sutra, includes consciousness. Therefore, the idea of a personal consciousness (ie; 'self-view) has no independent or inherent existence. And if that is the case, logically speaking, the only choice left is that consciousness cannot be a local phenomena, but therefore must be a non-local phenomena, which, by definition, is universal in nature.

Thanks for clearing that up.

It's been an enlightening experience.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I don't see reincarnation as any sort of learning process or the trials and tribulation towards attaining some higher goal. I see reincarnation as simply the natural transformation of energy from one form to another, or from one state to another. You maybe see everything as changeless, but from my view everything is changing/transforming. When our body ceases to sustain that same level of interaction we call our "life" or "consciousness", that interaction does not cease, it changes. We don't stop interacting, we interact differently. I don't feel there is any real purpose to it, it is just what the universe and nature does. A star is born, then that star dies, then new stars are born. With every change that takes place, a bit of the information from the previous form is retained and is carried on the the next...

Interesting stuff. It makes more sense to me when thought about in terms of interaction.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Because I don't see any evidence pointing towards a changless/nothingness/pure consciousness reality.

No evidence whatsoever. That's because it's a religious belief.

 

[godnotgod]

I'm not sure. Haven't had coffee for hours, and the champagne is pleasant but not strictly psychedelic

Another way I would approach this question is to ask: Where does your consciousness leave off and the 'outside' world begin?

 

[godnotgod]

No evidence whatsoever. That's because it's a religious belief.

Really? You mean it implies a belief in a divine being? How do you get that from 'The Changeless'?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And 'sunyata', as you explained, 'means empty of inherent or independent existence', which, according to The Heart Sutra, includes consciousness. Therefore, the idea of a personal consciousness (ie; 'self-view) has no independent or inherent existence. And if that is the case, logically speaking, the only choice left is that consciousness cannot be a local phenomena, but therefore must be a non-local phenomena, which, by definition, is universal in nature.

No, completely wrong, you're just making stuff up. Sunyata means that all consciousness is empty of inherent existence. One more time, sunyata is not compatible with "cosmic consciousness".

 

[godnotgod]

Sunyata is the state of mind empty of thought...a still mind free of thought.....

And a still mind free of thought is in actuality 'no-mind'. Sunyata is empty of mind itself.

 

[godnotgod]

No, completely wrong, you're just making stuff up. Sunyata means that all consciousness is empty of inherent existence. One more time, sunyata is not compatible with "cosmic consciousness".

It IS none other than cosmic consciousness, simply because it cannot be attached to self.

'all consciousness' that is seen as having inherent existence, or 'self-nature' is empty. Universal Consciousness has no such self-nature. That is why it can be called 'universal'. It is impersonal, limitless, empty of self. The Buddha's experience of Supreme Enlightenment was an experience in Higher Consciousness. It is for this reason that he was in a position to detect that all phenomena are empty of inherent self-nature as iterated in the Heart Sutra.

 

[godnotgod]

Sunyata

Lord Buddha says; “Sunyata is the ultimate reality. It is above all comprehensions and any attempt to describe would be an error. The ultimate reality, the limitless luminosity, the eternal noumenon beyond all phenomena, ought to be evidently infinite, unlimited, unconditional and without attributes.”

Sunyata is the consciousness beyond conceptual mind. [IOW 'universal consciousness']

Sunyata is the true nature of our mind. The universal oneness in nature, non-dualistic, and non-substantial is the essence and the nature of mind.

The concept of Sunyata has seamless continuity from Vedas and Upanishads. In Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, sage Yagyavalkya was asked by his pupils to explain the nature of Brahmn -the universal consciousness, the universal oneness. The sage replied: “Neti Neti -Neither This, Nor That. Such is the Brahmn.”

Krishna is the pure consciousness, the inner consciousness, the Brahmn, the pure spirit residing deep in us which is uncreated, unborn, incorruptible and ever pure and universal.

The pure state of the mind is the Buddha Nature. In this sense Sunyata connotes universal oneness...

http://pirthiman.blogspot.com/2014/01/sunyata.html