Lee Hays
Member
Your right - that is the very first lie.
I didn’t realize that till you said - then I read the scripture. This forum is awesome!!
Got home from work haven’t even turn on the TV yet - RAD!!!!
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Could you be wrong?
- Thread starter JJ50
- Start date
Your right - that is the very first lie.
I didn’t realize that till you said - then I read the scripture. This forum is awesome!!
Got home from work haven’t even turn on the TV yet - RAD!!!!
Since ' death ' is the price tag that sin pays ( Romans 6:23,7) then there is No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy, so when resurrected a person will be judged on what they do 'after' they are resurrected.Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
When we die, we sleep.
We return to the ground and rot.
Our soul dies with us.
And the breath of life returns to God who gave it. [Ecclesiastes 12:7]
We do not wake and our thoughts perish.
All our emotions are gone [Psalms 146:4]
We are no better than the animals in death [Ecclesiastes 3:19-20]
We all wait in the grave [Job 14:10-12]
Wait for what?
One day, that appointed time when we will be judged [II Peter 3:7,10]
according to what we have done
We will wake up.
Our flesh and bones returns to us
Our soul and spirit returns to our body
And we all face the one who will judge us all. [Acts 17:31]
I believe there were people who died, who in their wrong belief in the scheme of things, prepared for themselves material riches and even an army to follow them in the after life - which they miserably failed.
View attachment 30130View attachment 30131
My ancestors and your ancestors who have long died are not in heaven or in hell or even the man-made purgatory. They are all asleep in the cemetery or some parts unknown. They are all waiting in their sleep.
We are all waiting for?
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Matthew 25:31-46 New International Version (NIV)
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
After all, the majority of people died before Jesus died (John 3:13) and never even heard of Jesus so they could Not have put faith in Jesus.
However, once resurrected during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth, then they can learn about Jesus.
Those of us still alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth (Matthew 25:31-33,37,40) can remain alive on Earth right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.
Those figurative ' sheep' are given a favorable judgement and can be the first to be part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5. - Psalms 37:9-11; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Lee Hays
Member
No - you want to have a conversation
Why else you ask?
I wasn’t arguing - I’m not upset -
I just like throwing the ball back and forth.
Like I asked you - do you love your family? ok skip that one....
Do you get scared, or frustrated?
Have you ever liked someone -
Can you explain why you feel those things -
I’m sure you’ll have a scientific reasoning - but the actual Why?
No one can explain -
I can’t explain why I believe - I just do
Hey - Maybe that’s a gift - I believe whether or not (or the curse - for you may think it to be the curse)
I truly believe - because I Feel Love!
Do you feel Love?
I truly believe Love is what it’s all about -
And you don’t need to hold a label - of Christian to have it - and you don’t have to have a label of atheism to not have it.
Love don’t care - what you think - it’s just gonna love ya regardless - so I will believe regardless
Lee Hays
Member
No one can escape death, so is that the same for sin. We can’t escape it?
I know Jesus died for my sins, and I need him - but that doesn’t make sin ok (or sining) right...?
I - myself can’t escape sin - and I’m extremely hard on my self for it. But at the same time - it showed me I need Jesus -
(I’m not trying to sound negative - please don’t think that - but if we were without sin would we need Jesus)?
Again - I know Jesus died for my sins - just a stupid question I guess...
Spartan
Well-Known Member
You would be well advised to start reading some better historical information than it appears you've read in the past.
Recommended reading:
"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;
"The Historical Jesus of the Gospels," by Dr. Craig Keener -
"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;
"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;
"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and
"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.
“The Case for Miracles,” by Lee Strobel
Lee Hays
Member
No, Not a stupid questing, but an inquiring mind question because an inquiring mind wants to know.
Think about this: Jesus is King of God's Kingdom for only 1,000 years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Since ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth that means then sin will also be No more on Earth.
So, through Jesus by the end of the thousand years we will have only upright leanings toward righteousness.
After the end of the thousand years we will have a one-on-one relationship with God as Adam originally had.
As far as escaping death, please notice the 'glory time' of Jesus as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
At this coming ' time of separating ' those judged as righteous ones ( verse 37) can remain alive on Earth and continue to live on Earth without dying.
These figurative ' sheep ' can live through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 and continue to live on Earth with everlasting life on Earth in view as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Lee Hays
Member
When we die - would we all be asleep until the end of that thousand years?
Is that when Jesus will bring people back from hell (I thought that was during the 3 days...
people from the old law)
Does that mean - no one from earth is yet in heaven?
I know - I should read more of my Bible ...
Lee Hays
Member
Me too!
Spartan
Well-Known Member
Good for you. Dr. Gary Habermas' "The Historical Jesus" has the kind of in-depth evidences that really solidify one's faith and Christianity. It's hard to get a skeptic to read it, but they should.
God bless!
I am pretty sure the whole entire topic is much biggrr than Either the bible our understanding of god and jesus himself.
Unguru
I am a Sikh nice to meet you
Could you be wrong? serious answer please, not your mockery in your post
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not like thinking in terms of right and wrong, it is really a matter of certitude. I cannot say I can prove what I believe is true because I cannot; nobody can prove God exists or that there is an afterlife or that their religion is the truth.
My understandings might not be perfect but I have absolute certitude that what my religion teaches is the truth from God for this age. I can recall a few years ago, when atheists on another forum asked me this question, I said I had 90% certitude, but the more I learned about my religion owing to that fact that so many people on forums asked me questions, the more certitude I had, and now it is 100%. My husband has the same level of certitude, so we are two peas in a pod.
Ironically, all the atheists trying to talk me out of believing in God and my religion had the opposite effect. The more I learn, the more I know my religion is the truth.
There is no reason I would spend all my time on a God or a religion if I was not absolutely certain its the truth. There are so many other things I could be doing in my life and not that much time left to do them.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yep.
Yep.
But God is not ever going to do that because God wants belief to be a free will choice. Those who are willing to give the evidence a fair shake have a good shot at believing and that is how God wants it. We can logically conclude that God does need everyone to believe because if He did, He could make everyone believe, since God is omnipotent.
Well, that’s big of you, but obviously you would have to admit that you were wrong after the fact. The key is to admit you might be wrong and then come to realize you were wrong, without God having to come swooping down. God could come swooping down, but here is what would happen.
“Were the Eternal Essence to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. Nay, all created things would be so dazzled and thunderstruck by the evidences of His light as to be reduced to utter nothingness. How, then, can the godly be differentiated under such circumstances from the froward?” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 71-72
Note the last sentence and try to figure out what it means.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
Oh, definitely. When I was staunchly religious, I "knew" that I was right and everything my religion believed was correct...and, of course, we were the ONLY ones who had the correct understanding about anything Biblical.
Since leaving that religion, and learning that many of the things I was taught as truth were anything but true, I've realized that my beliefs are simply that...beliefs...and that they cannot rightfully be called truth. Perhaps some (or all) of what I believe will turn out to be true, but it's just as likely that those beliefs will prove to be absolutely wrong.
How is believing in a God a choice? Just like other things I can't see, I can't start making myself believe that fairies exist on a whim... it's not something I can turn on and off freely like turning on or off a pipe faucet. Freely choosing to believing that God exists doesn't make sense. How would somebody even do such a thing? It's either I'm convinced that a God exists or I'm not, I can't freely convince myself (however that might work) that God exists or doesn't exist.
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Samana Johann
Restricted by request
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Romans 6:23 speaks about the wages of sin is death. But it isn't about the cessation of blood circulation and breathing, it is a different kind of death.
Revelation 21:7-8 New International Version (NIV)
Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
If there is a second death, what then is the first one? It is the fate of every man, woman and child, as God mentioned this to Adam:
Genesis 3:19 New International Version (NIV)
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
URAVIP2ME, you are Jehovah's Witness?
Your last paragraph gave you away.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
So this is you stating that belief is warranted? That you're sure of this?
This is you stating that I am of the wrong mindset or just being obstinate? And you are sure of this?
And this is one of the reasons I couldn't worship unless there was a huge show, by God, of actually caring about the human race and the Earth enough to get over His (supposed) foolish obsession with "free will." God can want whatever He wants - even I, who do not believe in Him, understand this, because we humans are the same way. But what God wants DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SEEN AS "GOOD" TO ME. I can disagree with the things God is reported to have done. I can morally judge God and decide that He isn't worth my time, even if He does exist. And this is where I stand. Even if it is proven that God exists, it will only be proven to me that a gigantic butthole of a supreme being exists somewhere who is entirely foolhardy and incredibly dopey. Again, this is according to me, and what I am able to experience and understand. But, then again, how could God expect me to use anything besides the tools I have access to? If it takes incredibly cosmic vision in order to understand God's actual plan, and how certain parts of it are "good," then how can God ever expect me to understand given that I do not have such cosmic perspective on my vision? And if I have no hope of understanding, then I am the kind of person to not care about the thing that I am being told can't be understood. You say I "can't understand?" Fine... I won't even try then, because according to that "logic" (hahaha) there is absolutely no point.
But the problem is, all the "reasons" people say I should admit they are right "before the fact" all seem terribly inadequate to me. The only way I could "come to realize I was wrong" would be to actually receive some incontrovertible evidence. Besides that, there's absolutely no reason to believe. Everything that isn't incontrovertible that I have seen thus far looks like piles of dog crap to me.
What anyone thinks or is told will happen if God appears is irrelevant. No one can know this information. To have written anything with a definitive air about this subject is FOLLY. It is foolishness, paraded as wisdom. And what that last sentence should say is this:Note the last sentence and try to figure out what it means.
And the truthful answer is that it cannot.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I said God wants belief to be a free will choice people make, rather than God making us believe against our will.
I did not say that everyone can make the choice to believe in God. Not everyone can or will make that choice, because they would have to find a way to be convinced that God exists, and not everyone can find a way.
But if one does not even look at the ONLY evidence that God provides, religions founded by Messengers of God, then there is no chance they will even be convinced, because there would be nothing to convince them.