Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Subduction Zone]

?? lol are you so set on twisting my words?

I am not twisting anything. You couldn't find any difference.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They began the process of dying the day they ate from that tree, whether you like it or not as it is explained biblically, because -- each DAY of creation was not 24 hours each. And again, something you have overlooked is a question I asked you, since you seem to know so much about the Bible, when did the 7th DAY end? Can you explain?

No. The story does not say that. It does not even imply that. You are adding to it.

The 7th day would be our Saturday and it ends at sunset. Why ask?

I almost forgot Gen 3 22

 

[Brian2]

Again with the vengeance. No, again, it's not vengeance I'm looking for. I'm trying to figure out where the morality is here. You keep saying your way is moral, but when we dig deeper into it, it's pretty revealing that it isn't.

The whole idea that anyone is getting any eternal life is just one of the parts that make this whole thing so immoral. It's just an element of wishful thinking added to the mix to make oneself feel better.

Are you saying that God's offering forgiveness to anyone is immoral, even if they repent and change their ways?
Why are you saying that? It sounds like it is because it is offending you, someone who does not believe in Jesus.

So the perp does something wrong ("sins") against another person. The perp feels bad, and turns to God(s) for forgiveness. The perp is forgiven and gets to go to have an "eternal life" in heaven after he dies. The perp is all set!

The perp has:
-secured himself a place in heaven
-received forgiveness for his actions from a third party that wasn't in any way affected by the perp's actions

The perp has not:
-provided restitution to the actual victim, or to the victim's family
-apologized to the actual victim or the victim's family
-done anything at all to improve the plight of the actual victim or the victim's family

The victim is in the same place they started from.

The victim may be offered an apology or restitution by the perpetrator if that is possible. Sometimes it is not possible.
Jesus does give the story of Zachaeus the tax collector and shows what true repentance should entail.
But as I said, that is not always possible.

All of the perp's actions are selfish in nature. They benefit only himself. No benefits are provided to the victim or the victim's family.
You say, "oh well the victim gets to live forever too!" But what if (s)he's not a Christian though? What if (s)he doesn't sincerely believe in Jesus Christ? Oopsy. Now they don't even get eternal life either.

It is true that the victim might not receive eternal life but that would show that the victim was also a perpetrator of many evil acts also with no repentance and no forgiving those who did evil against them.
I don't see the Bible as teaching that only Christians gain eternal life. That is something that Jesus decides at the judgement. It is Jesus who is the judge and so everyone has to go through Him to get to the Father and cannot get there any other way.

Not to mention the fact that all of this deals with some mystical and mythical idea about some eternal life, while completely ignoring what's going on in this one life we know we actually get for sure. That's another immoral thing about this. Oh well, it will all be better after you die and get to live forever!

Which sounds like you are saying that God should be forcing everyone now to do what is right instead of allowing people freedom and judging them later.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Go ask the other believers on these boards that hear messages from beyond.

I have already asked and I used to be a believer. I know how it works. Prayer is actually a monologue. There is no feedback heard or seen.

You are just supposed to read the Bible and ascribe personal message to what you read. Or you have to look at what happens during the day and ascribe message to what you see. Both methods are apophenia.

 

[Brian2]

Hebrews 1 is the first chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrews in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. The author is anonymous, although the internal reference to "our brother Timothy" (Hebrews 13:23) causes a traditional attribution to Paul, but this attribution has been disputed since the second century and there is no decisive evidence for the authorship.
Hebrews 1 - Wikipedia

I understand that you have faith in the Bible as being inspired by God. You therefore quote it and see it as inerrant in doctrine.
I see that your quote is not a quote from Jesus, but an opinion of the author. There were many opinions about Jesus in the early days, and I don't see quotes from anonymous authors as authoritative.

I don't think you see any writings in the New Testament as authoritative and that would be the same for the OT also. It is what you say Muhammad said that is authoritative for you and so we disagree because what Muhammad said disagrees with what the Bible says.

..so you prefer the opinion of an anonymous author, over what Jesus is reported to have said in the Gospel?
"Don't call me good. Only God alone is good".

Christians believe Jesus was good, a sinless sacrifice for sins, as the lamb without blemish offered for sin in the Law is a type of. Soooo, what Jesus said could just as easily mean that Jesus is God.

Yes .. Jesus was sent "to become a man" .. not God.
Anyhow, you believe that Jesus is "special" .. so do I.
..but Jesus taught us to pray to "Our Father" .. perhaps that is where you and I differ.

You believe Jesus is and did what the Quran says and I believe about Jesus what the Bible says.

 

[Brian2]

God's fault?

Jesus dying and rising, apparently, is the foundation of Christian faith. Jesus did not teach that. It is a sectarian belief that came to dominate over others, as the gentile church became the church of the empire.

It was not spread by Jewish "Christians" such as the disciples.

No, Jesus taught that He would die and rise again as a ransom for many, as the start of the New Covenant from God. It was spread by the first Jewish Christians.

 

[YoursTrue]

Context matters. God said that they would die the day that they ate from the tree. Satan said that they would not.

God said they would die on or in the day they ate from that tree. (Did that day end? What day was it? The first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh day?)
They did not have to die before they did what God told them not to do. God said they would die if they ate from a particular tree. Not any tree. Let's take a closer look at it:
(Genesis 3)
Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden?’ ”2The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3but about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’ 
The serpent was crafty, cunning. He did not ask Eve if she ate from the tree in the MIDDLE of the garden, but from ANY tree in the garden.

 

[Brian2]

When they lived almost a millennium, not that day.

They most certainly died, and that is what God said would happen, using the phrase that meant that.

 

[Brian2]

The truth is people long for justice, immortality, peace... "something more"... That's why they hold on to religious stories.

Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.” (Jn 6:68)

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied. (Beatitudes)

If there's a God or any kind of justice under the sky
If there's a point, if there's a reason to live or die
If there's an answer to the questions, we feel bound to ask
Show yourself, destroy our fears, release your mask (Queen - Innuendo)

That post was a great pray imo

 

[Brian2]

That doesn’t mean Jesus is God

For a Bible believer it should mean that imo

 

[Brian2]

No, all it means is that clearly humility is not being accepted as a virtue,

How so?

 

[Brian2]

Honoring parents and keeping the sabbath,

He broke the way the Jewish leaders of the day said people should keep the sabbath.
He did honor parents.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have already asked and I used to be a believer. I know how it works. Prayer is actually a monologue. There is no feedback heard or seen.

You are just supposed to read the Bible and ascribe personal message to what you read. Or you have to look at what happens during the day and ascribe message to what you see. Both methods are apophenia.

I have not found that to be so. I believe and know that God answers prayers. Not all prayers, though. It can depend upon what the prayers consist of. Although I was not always a believer and worshipper of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. The story does not say that. It does not even imply that. You are adding to it.

The 7th day would be our Saturday and it ends at sunset. Why ask?

The seventh day in the Genesis account of creation does not have an evening and a morning as the other days do. There is no closure in the account of the seventh day.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I have not found that to be so. I believe and know that God answers prayers.

How do you know?

 

[Subduction Zone]

God said they would die on or in the day they ate from that tree. (Did that day end? What day was it? The first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh day?)
They did not have to die before they did what God told them not to do. God said they would die if they ate from a particular tree. Not any tree. Let's take a closer look at it:
(Genesis 3)
Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden?’ ”2The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3but about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’ 
The serpent was crafty, cunning. He did not ask Eve if she ate from the tree in the MIDDLE of the garden, but from ANY tree in the garden.

Now you are forgetting what God said. He said that on that day they would die. This is not the sort of day that could be a long period of time.

For example "Back in the days of my youth" It was a specific day. And that day ended when the Sun went down. They did not die when the sun went down. Let me quote the verse for you:

"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”"

Now let's see if God was being completely honest. What did he say later:

Genesis 3 : 22

"22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out with his hand, and take fruit also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— "

What? They could have kept living if he did not prevent them from getting to the tree of life? Oh oh, it looks as if it was not Adam and Eve tat sealed their fate but God.


Don't worry, since it is a myth we know that it did not happen. If a God exists he is not this evil.

 

[PearlSeeker]

That post was a great pray imo

Yes. A prayer no one hears. I'm afraid this longing is just wishful thinking and we have to take life as it is.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The seventh day in the Genesis account of creation does not have an evening and a morning as the other days do. There is no closure in the account of the seventh day.

What makes you think that? You are now trying to reinterpret the Bible after the fact. I assure you, the Sun went down that day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Now you are forgetting what God said. He said that on that day they would die. This is not the sort of day that could be a long period of time.

For example "Back in the days of my youth" It was a specific day. And that day ended when the Sun went down. They did not die when the sun went down. Let me quote the verse for you:

"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”"

Now let's see if God was being completely honest. What did he say later:

Genesis 3 : 22

"22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out with his hand, and take fruit also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— "

What? They could have kept living if he did not prevent them from getting to the tree of life? Oh oh, it looks as if it was not Adam and Eve tat sealed their fate but God.


Don't worry, since it is a myth we know that it did not happen. If a God exists he is not this evil.

Anyway, as evolution has it, everyone will die. And die forever. So? One's death certificate is virtually symbolically sealed as soon as he is conceived in the mother's womb.
You continue, however, to overlook the fact that the seventh 'day' has not ended, although the other six days have in the account. Adam and Eve did not die before they ate from that tree. But then I suppose you think it all happened on the 6th day of a 24-hour period, I guess, (oh well...)

 

[Subduction Zone]

Anyway, as evolution has it, everyone will die. And die forever. So? One's death certificate is virtually symbolically sealed as soon as he is conceived in the mother's womb.
You continue, however, to overlook the fact that the seventh 'day' has not ended, although the other six days have in the account. Adam and Eve did not die before they ate from that tree. But then I suppose you think it all happened on the 6th day of a 24-hour period, I guess, (oh well...)

No, just like with Christianity, evolution says that everyone will die. Evolution does not mean that Christianity is false. Where did you get that idea from? It only means that the immoral Adam and Eve myth is false. And if you do not understand what is wrong with a supposed perfect God blaming his creation for his own short comings then you might want to work on your own morals.