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Why do you have empathy for a cow and not other mammals such as a mouse or rat?
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Countries banning of kosher meats are forcing "expulsion" of Jews
- Thread starter IndigoChild5559
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Why do you have empathy for a cow and not other mammals such as a mouse or rat?
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
I never said I don't have empathy for mice or rats. However, this particular issue is dealing with cattle.
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Yet you used mammals as a reason so I'm asking you about other mammals. Is it ok to make mice and rats suffer with traps and poison?
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
Ok, you want to talk about mice and rats. Since the argument is about unnecessary suffering even though we're killing them, we'll leave it at that discussion.
Do you know if they suffer or not in traps or when ingested rat poison?
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They must. They squirm just like a cow does.
How do you know a cow suffers and not just going on different instinct like the fly you descibed?
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
Uh, ok. I guess no research on that topic
The same way I'd know if I saw a human was suffering: I'd look at the similarities.
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Oh and also, we do breed cows for the sole purpose to slaughter.
We breed rats and mice to feed alive to snakes and such.
We breed crickets to feed alive to spiders and lizards.
We breed rabbits to slaughter.
We breed chickens to slaughter.
We breed turkeys to slaughter.
Etc....
Where is the humanity in any of it?
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Uh, ok. I guess no research on that topic
The same way I'd know if I saw a human was suffering: I'd look at the similarities.
Rats and mice, I would look at them the same if I saw a human suffering. I'd look for similarities.
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
Yes and this particular topic is about unnecessary suffering. So, does that animal we're about to kill, and maybe not out of necessity(e.g. need to live), have to suffer more than it needs to? If we're more moral than not, I'd have to say no.
Maybe there isn't or maybe humanity needs to change for the better.
Wait what? I didn't understand this.
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Uh, ok. I guess no research on that topic
The same way I'd know if I saw a human was suffering: I'd look at the similarities.
The point I'm getting at is we see cows more as a pet than a rat. So we assign the cow to be more than the rat.
Others countries eat cats, dogs horses, etc. Here in the states it's forbidden because we assign them more than just an animal for food.
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
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"Wait what? I didn't understand this"
By looking at the rat or mouse, you can easily tell if they are suffering or not by their actions. Foaming at the mouth, squirming, jerking, etc to me are signs of suffering.
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But aren't they all just animals?
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
So, maybe there are better ways to dispose of them. Oh look, here are some What is the most humane way to kill pest rats and mice? – RSPCA Knowledgebase
And? What point are you trying to make?
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I'm not trying to get you to change your stance. I'm trying to get you to see what we think is wrong, other countries and cultures think is fine. The eating of horse's, cats and dogs is a good example of that.
I remember watching videos of people in a country locking a live monkey in a table, taking hammers and beating it in the head to break it open so they could eat it's brains. I've been to those countries, never seen it in person though.
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Not many care how rats or mice are killed as long as they are killed.
"And? What point are you trying to make?"
I already made it. They all are just animals.
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
I understand this on a fundamental level. I'm a moral relativist. However, that does not mean I don't have morals. And, what I know of empathy is that it's generally a good thing. Since we both seem to be moral relativists, you understand that even morality for human beings can change. This is why we can torture, enslave and kill our fellow human being and say it was for good. This is exactly why empathy should not be devalued.
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
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Yes we are just animals as well. A product of nature and evolution. However we have became more intelligent and dominant than any other species on the planet. The sad thing is we also have became more destructive and wasteful than any other species on the planet. Not a good trade off.
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
We seem to agree a lot more the second time around.