Countries like Australia prove secularism does not equal communism and other violent antitheisms

[MikeDwight]

Yes i thought you would excuse 800 million deaths in the name of religion

I was going to say, all the wars he quotes are limited wars concerning the prestige of landholders and Kings. Not the Total Wars we know today by any stretch of the imagination. They're stretched out over 600 years in his post.
The technology of war today coupled with the ideological age, French republic, Russian communism, german fascism, has only been around 200 years maximum, accompanied by this fierce nationalism.
Who here says that Australia is more racist than Dixie? Because we're talking about closed immigration to an island offshore from all Asia, 75% white, experiment of British Imperialism. dropping below 70% Christian identification. Aborigines don't get integrated.

 

[ChristineM]

I was going to say, all the wars he quotes are limited wars concerning the prestige of landholders and Kings. Not the Total Wars we know today by any stretch of the imagination. They're stretched out over 600 years in his post.
The technology of war today coupled with the ideological age, French republic, Russian communism, german fascism, has only been around 200 years maximum, accompanied by this fierce nationalism.
Who here says that Australia is more racist than Dixie? Because we're talking about closed immigration to an island offshore from all Asia, 75% white, experiment of British Imperialism. dropping below 70% Christian identification. Aborigines don't get integrated.

My post, i was the one who posted the list of religious wars

 

[MikeDwight]

For instance the Hundred Years War. we already had a French Duke of Normandy overtake the self-rule of the Anglos in about 1066 Battle of Hastings. Therefore cultural French and Latin, and English was low-class out of court. The Hundred Years War pressed a claim of the Duke of Normandy and King of England as the King of France through some wedding of "Eleanor of Aquitane" if you see that England already had Aquitaine by marriage. I mean how much further removed can everybody be from that stuff? King of England,France,Ireland! Pretend titles of the line for hundreds of years. Calais the staple port!
I bet if there was a pair of guns mowing down everybody we'd all worry what language, culture, and religion our children would grow up in, right?
So just to be on topic, Australia, the penal colony of pure British imperialism, post-religious age, Dr. Livingstone, I Presume?! Oh you found me! You did! You found me!

 

[danieldemol]

I don't really know much about the connection you're making here, can you throw out some stats or maybe an article. I don't even know all that much about Australia

Here is an informative article which I think highlights that Australia is not a theocracy:
theconversation.com/amp/is-australia-a-secular-country-it-depends-what-you-mean-38222

 

[danieldemol]

Hi
I'm not sure why you would think that left or right come into it. Both sides are the same side in any real analysis of politics.
US war machine is mostly empowered by US Christian voters
This is the exact place that the supposed informed Bahai intellectual structure falls apart. You guys bang on about how Christendom got it wrong and yet you fail to call out Christendom as not true Christians. Anyone claiming to be Christian that votes or that supports war is no Christian.

That Australia has never found a war that it did not want a part of from the Boers until the present belies the claim of peaceful secularism. If Iran or Korea popped Australia would be the first country on board no matter who caused it or if it was unlawful by international law. No moral consideration of the right of the matter from the others perspective would be given. Luck and isolation and abundant resources are the things that make Australia seem peaceful and somewhat stable. it is an illusion.
Peace

First of all I’m not a Baha’i, I’m a Liberal.

Second of all that’s very disingenuous to claim that Christians are not truly Christian if they support war.

Thirdly if Iran or Korea “popped” (WTH does that even mean?) Australians would only be on board no matter who caused it under a conservative right wing government, speaking for myself I can say that at least some of us on the left are concerned with international law.

 

[Moz]

First of all I’m not a Baha’i, I’m a Liberal.

Second of all that’s very disingenuous to claim that Christians are not truly Christian if they support war.

Thirdly if Iran or Korea “popped” (WTH does that even mean?) Australians would only be on board no matter who caused it under a conservative right wing government, speaking for myself I can say that at least some of us on the left are concerned with international law.

Hi
Here's what i don't get.
You said.......Second of all that’s very disingenuous to claim that Christians are not truly Christian if they support war. So you lot blame religion for war and then when i point out that true christians are opposed to war and politics you shoot me down as being hard on them. What gives.

The initial followers of Christ were non violent non political participants within any society they lived in for the first 300 years. Only an idiotic moron with no knowledge of the first and second century would argue any different.

So why is it disingenuous to say that so called self described christians who abandoned the example of the first century are in fact not rue christians.
Peace

 

[danieldemol]

Hi
Here's what i don't get.
You said.......Second of all that’s very disingenuous to claim that Christians are not truly Christian if they support war. So you lot blame religion for war and then when i point out that true christians are opposed to war and politics you shoot me down as being hard on them. What gives.

The initial followers of Christ were non violent non political participants within any society they lived in for the first 300 years. Only an idiotic moron with no knowledge of the first and second century would argue any different.

So why is it disingenuous to say that so called self described christians who abandoned the example of the first century are in fact not rue christians.
Peace

Christians didn’t have any power until Constantine. If in all the last 1700 years Christians have not been able to reduce or eliminate partisan politics and violence with all their numbers and all their power I see no reason to trust them to do it now.

Besides that, according to my understanding even first century Christians believed that Christ upon His return would be a theocrat who would sentence those who refused to support Him to death.

When your ideal king is a dictator it is little surprise if those kings who tried to live up to Christ’s standard have turned out to be less than benevolent.

 

[Cooky]

Besides that, according to my understanding even first century Christians believed that Christ upon His return would be a theocrat who would sentence those who refused to support Him to death.

What else did they know? What else existed, but theocracy in the first century?

 

[danieldemol]

What else did they know? What else existed, but theocracy in the first century?

I’m not trying to blame Christians who can admit that theocracy is outdated here. According to my understanding Moz is trying to push theocracy as being more humane than secularism, and that deserves criticism.

 

[Moz]

Christians didn’t have any power until Constantine. If in all the last 1700 years Christians have not been able to reduce or eliminate partisan politics and violence with all their numbers and all their power I see no reason to trust them to do it now.

Besides that, according to my understanding even first century Christians believed that Christ upon His return would be a theocrat who would sentence those who refused to support Him to death.

When your ideal king is a dictator it is little surprise if those kings who tried to live up to Christ’s standard have turned out to be less than benevolent.

HI

Christianity did not GET POWER with constatine they were taken over by the state, That is why they should no longer be considered representive of what true christians believe. All the wars you bang on about were launched by men for political reasons using religion as the lever.
Peace

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Here is an informative article which I think highlights that Australia is not a theocracy:
theconversation.com/amp/is-australia-a-secular-country-it-depends-what-you-mean-38222

Hm.. well those levels of religiosity do look pretty low. I imagine you can't get to the third form without having the situation subdued enough to get there, in a way.

 

[MikeDwight]

HI

Christianity did not GET POWER with constatine they were taken over by the state, That is why they should no longer be considered representive of what true christians believe. All the wars you bang on about were launched by men for political reasons using religion as the lever.
Peace

You don't make Any sense at all. Popes could excommunicate Kingdoms, written down in Papal Bull for Queen Elizabeth, so that was a Spanish Crusade against England like those against the Muslims where captured lands are legally now yours. Churches owned looked like 25% of the land in Europe outright with bishoprics, patriarchies. Depending on feudal or imperial administration. The Church was established wing of government like executive, judicial, legislative. Nobles, Clergy, usually Burghers. Every victory, like William the Conqueror's, proclaimed only the Rule of Christ. To claim the Church got subsumed is Nonsense.
The Orthodox Churches could still banish in their respective administrative dominions, patriarchies, and do a synod to meet for some sort of group action. The Churches were government Establishment as the UK knows the Establishment of the Church of England and the Church of Scotland, which have each been influenced at points in time, between Catholic/Anglican/Presbyterian.

I figure this guy played Byzantium 1066-1444 incredibly successful run, when the game's end date should basically be the siege of Constantinople. You know the point is how Armenia, Georgia, Bulgaria, Serbia, spun-off either from the Muslim pressure or the European model, from an Orthodox system protecting alphabet, language, and heritage with the Greek Empire, better than say the Catholics there.