Creation of Universe, Scriptures vs Science

[Suave]

I don't know what "well pegged" means, but you can't just assert this, you have to demonstrate sufficient objective evidence for the claim.



Nothing evidential either, that seems like wild speculation to me sorry.



Again this just seems like wild unevidenced speculation. Human beings, like all living things, evolved slowly over billions of years, that is an objective fact since all the objective evidence supports it, even after over 162 years of global scientific scrutiny.

There are five indications of us living in a simulation:

1. Crude simulations and virtual realities have already been simulated by computers .
A study conducted by Henry Markram and his team at the Blue Brain project have successfully simulated elements of a rat’s neocortical column, a complex layer of brain tissue common to all mammalian species. " Henry Markram at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne and his team built their model based on experimental measurements of rat brain slices. The simulation represents roughly 37 million synapses, or neuronal connections, in the brain region that receives sensory information from the whiskers and other parts of the body. Using the model, the team simulated rat whisker movement and saw similar neuronal responses to those observed in rat experiments."

Computer model of rat-brain part - Nature.

I realize a computer simulation of a rat's neocortical column is nowhere near the complexity of a computer simulation of an entire living human brain, but this does demonstrate at least a bit of progress so far being made towards an entire human brain's consciousness being simulated by a computer.

Perhaps when scientists have figured out how to read the actual results of a consciousness simulation, then the simulation hypothesis will become a widely accepted theory.

2. Wave-function collapse - Matter exists as a probability wave that collapses to a particle upon observation. Wave-function collapse would be expected in a simulated reality, because computational resources would be conserved by only simulating observed matter.

3. Matrix glitches - Paranormal phenomenon might happen in a simulation where the rules governing the simulation are disrupted or changed

4 Compromises in simulation algorithms - The human mind and the internet use very similar algorithms or methods to manage the flow of information., these methods often take short cuts to conserve energy or conserve computational resources, this might be expected in a computer simulation.

Study: Internet, Human Brain Use Similar Algorithms to Process Info

5. Computer code found in string theory.

What if it's not lights-out game-over after your mind's ionic currents cease to flow across your brain's neurons. What if your character gets re-simulated or re-animated by the sims controller? Then what are you going to do?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Scriptures vs science is a false dichotomy significant only to those who, having rejected faith in God, look to science to fill the hole they have created for themselves.

Sorry, have to interrupt you here, without even reading your post to the end.

Let me be quite clear -- there is no "hole" in myself. I am, and most other skeptics, atheists, agnostics and the like are, quite complete.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There are five indications of us living in a simulation:

1. Crude simulations and virtual realities have already been simulated by computers .
A study conducted by Henry Markram and his team at the Blue Brain project have successfully simulated elements of a rat’s neocortical column, a complex layer of brain tissue common to all mammalian species. " Henry Markram at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne and his team built their model based on experimental measurements of rat brain slices. The simulation represents roughly 37 million synapses, or neuronal connections, in the brain region that receives sensory information from the whiskers and other parts of the body. Using the model, the team simulated rat whisker movement and saw similar neuronal responses to those observed in rat experiments."

Computer model of rat-brain part - Nature.

I realize a computer simulation of a rat's neocortical column is nowhere near the complexity of a computer simulation of an entire living human brain, but this does demonstrate at least a bit of progress so far being made towards an entire human brain's consciousness being simulated by a computer.

Perhaps when scientists have figured out how to read the actual results of a consciousness simulation, then the simulation hypothesis will become a widely accepted theory.

2. Wave-function collapse - Matter exists as a probability wave that collapses to a particle upon observation. Wave-function collapse would be expected in a simulated reality, because computational resources would be conserved by only simulating observed matter.

3. Matrix glitches - Paranormal phenomenon might happen in a simulation where the rules governing the simulation are disrupted or changed

4 Compromises in simulation algorithms - The human mind and the internet use very similar algorithms or methods to manage the flow of information., these methods often take short cuts to conserve energy or conserve computational resources, this might be expected in a computer simulation.

Study: Internet, Human Brain Use Similar Algorithms to Process Info

5. Computer code found in string theory.

What if it's not lights-out game-over after your mind's ionic currents cease to flow across your brain's neurons. What if your character gets re-simulated or re-animated by the sims controller? Then what are you going to do?

Pseudo-science nonsense -- in my opinion.

 

[Valjean]

Point being, the Holy Quran hypothesized the existence of wormholes, this being hypothesized nearly 1,200 years before modern era science hypothesized their existence; the Holy Quran had advanced knowledge of warped space, which may have been from advanced intelligence beyond the Earthly lifetime of the prophet Muhammad.

Yet nobody mentioned any of this till recently? Could you cite these passages?

This is what I mean by vague and ambiguous prophecies and 'facts'. I think you're being apophenic; seeing patterns where there are none. You're interpreting vague passages to support specific facts. It's wishful thinking, not ancient scientific insight.

People have been finding modern wisdom in all sorts of religious and secular writings for years. Strange that none of the ancients ever ran with it.

 

[Sheldon]

There are five indications of us living in a simulation:

1. Crude simulations and virtual realities have already been simulated by computers .
A study conducted by Henry Markram and his team at the Blue Brain project have successfully simulated elements of a rat’s neocortical column, a complex layer of brain tissue common to all mammalian species. " Henry Markram at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne and his team built their model based on experimental measurements of rat brain slices. The simulation represents roughly 37 million synapses, or neuronal connections, in the brain region that receives sensory information from the whiskers and other parts of the body. Using the model, the team simulated rat whisker movement and saw similar neuronal responses to those observed in rat experiments."

Computer model of rat-brain part - Nature.

I realize a computer simulation of a rat's neocortical column is nowhere near the complexity of a computer simulation of an entire living human brain, but this does demonstrate at least a bit of progress so far being made towards an entire human brain's consciousness being simulated by a computer.

Perhaps when scientists have figured out how to read the actual results of a consciousness simulation, then the simulation hypothesis will become a widely accepted theory.

2. Wave-function collapse - Matter exists as a probability wave that collapses to a particle upon observation. Wave-function collapse would be expected in a simulated reality, because computational resources would be conserved by only simulating observed matter.

3. Matrix glitches - Paranormal phenomenon might happen in a simulation where the rules governing the simulation are disrupted or changed

4 Compromises in simulation algorithms - The human mind and the internet use very similar algorithms or methods to manage the flow of information., these methods often take short cuts to conserve energy or conserve computational resources, this might be expected in a computer simulation.

Study: Internet, Human Brain Use Similar Algorithms to Process Info

5. Computer code found in string theory.

What if it's not lights-out game-over after your mind's ionic currents cease to flow across your brain's neurons. What if your character gets re-simulated or re-animated by the sims controller? Then what are you going to do?

I see no objective evidence there sorry, merely speculation peppered with some tangential facts that are being interpreted subjectively to mean what you want them to.

Explain to me at least one way you could falsify that idea? As a basic starting point it has to be a falsifiable idea, otherwise not only is it unscientific by definition, but I would personally have to remain agnostic and withhold belief.

 

[F1fan]

Also not applicable to what I was replying to, your reply is not considering that context, so is meaningless.

Up to you to go back and check.

Yeah, you said this is a "religious forum" as if that means we can't debate religion.

 

[Suave]

Pseudo-science nonsense -- in my opinion.

I am curious to know why you may consider simulation hypothesis as psuedo-science?

 

[Sheldon]

Yeah, you said this is a "religious forum" as if that means we can't debate religion.

Especially since it is also a debate forum, it's right there in the title.

 

[Sheldon]

I am curious to know why you may consider simulation hypothesis as psuedo-science?

Is it falsifiable? If not you have your answer.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yet nobody mentioned any of this till recently? Could you cite these passages?

This is what I mean by vague and ambiguous prophecies and 'facts'. I think you're being apophenic; seeing patterns where there are none. You're interpreting vague passages to support specific facts. It's wishful thinking, not ancient scientific insight.

People have been finding modern wisdom in all sorts of religious and secular writings for years. Strange that none of the ancients ever ran with it.

If I may, can I just emphasize "vague" and "ambiguous?" Thank you.

 

[Suave]

I see no objective evidence there sorry, merely speculation peppered with some tangential facts that are being interpreted subjectively to mean what you want them to.

Explain to me at least one way you could falsify that idea? As a basic starting point it has to be a falsifiable idea, otherwise not only is it unscientific by definition, but I would personally have to remain agnostic and withhold belief.

Your character Sheldon of the Big Bang Theory is a string theorist,. Based on our current technology, string theory is neither verifiable nor falsifiable. Likewise, based on current technology, the simulation hypothesis can neither be proven nor disproven. Being hypothetical in contrast to a theory well supported by observational evidence obtainable with current technology does not mean the hypothesis of our universe being simulated is non-factual or fictitious. l. A string theorist conjecturing the hypothetical existence of cosmic strings being one-dimensional subatomic particle having a concentration of energy and the dynamic properties of a flexible loop could be making a correct assumption about the existence of such cosmic strings. Likewise, a Christian Matrixist could be making a correct assumption about there being a sims controller, a reality-based virtual reality programmer of human consciousness . Right?

 

[Suave]

Is it falsifiable? If not you have your answer.

Nor is string theory, that does it mean it's psuedo-science or fictitious. Right>

 

[Sheldon]

Your character Sheldon of the Big Bang Theory is a string theorist,. Based on our current technology, string theory is neither verifiable nor falsifiable. Likewise, based on current technology, the simulation hypothesis can neither be proven nor disproven.

I didn't ask if it had been falsified, I asked if it were falsifiable. Falsifiability is the most basic requirement for any scientific idea, if something is unfalsifiable it is by definition unscientific.

Is the idea you posted above falsifiable, you claimed it was scientific, so it would have to be?

 

[Suave]

Yet nobody mentioned any of this till recently? Could you cite these passages?

This is what I mean by vague and ambiguous prophecies and 'facts'. I think you're being apophenic; seeing patterns where there are none. You're interpreting vague passages to support specific facts. It's wishful thinking, not ancient scientific insight.

People have been finding modern wisdom in all sorts of religious and secular writings for years. Strange that none of the ancients ever ran with it.

Please note Quran verse 21:104 "
"The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records...."

I interpret "fold the heaven like the folding of a sheet" such as space being bent for wormholes". Maybe, I'm wrong about this, but how else could anybody interpret a folding of heaven like a sheet of paper?

 

[Sheldon]

Nor is string theory, that does it mean it's psuedo-science or fictitious. Right>

I wasn't asking if it had been falsified, I was asking if it was falsifiable. Falsifiability is a base requirement for all scientific ideas, unfalsifiable ideas are rejected as unscientific. Also I have made no claims about string theory, you are introducing a straw man fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

I interpret "fold the heaven like the folding of a sheet" such as space being bent for wormholes".

Subjective interpretations are not objective evidence, and that is the most tenuous connection imaginable. To believe that is comparable to a scientific theory is frankly absurd.

 

[Suave]

I didn't ask if it had been falsified, I asked if it were falsifiable. Falsifiability is the most basic requirement for any scientific idea, if something is unfalsifiable it is by definition unscientific.

Is the idea you posted above falsifiable, you claimed it was scientific, so it would have to be?

With advanced technology, consciousness may be simulated. Then based on Nick Bostrom's simulation argument, we would most likely be living in a simulation. Of course, with current technology, simulation hypothesis in neither verifiable nor falsifiable. If we were indeed living in base reality, then this might imply intelligent beings becoming extinct before obtaining the technology to realistically simulate universes, I don't want to even consider that intelligent beings become extinct before being able to conduct realistic simulations. Do you?

 

[Sheldon]

With advanced technology, consciousness may be simulated. Then based on Nick Bostrom's simulation argument, we would most likely be living in a simulation. Of course, with current technology, simulation hypothesis in neither verifiable nor falsifiable. If we were indeed living in base reality, then this might imply intelligent beings becoming extinct before obtaining the technology to realistically simulate universes, I don't want to even consider that intelligent beings become extinct before being able to conduct realistic simulations. Do you?

Is the idea falsifiable? You still haven't answered?

 

[Suave]

Is the idea falsifiable? You still haven't answered?

Depends, how realistic of a simulation are we hypothesizing> A totally realistic simulation non-distinguishable from base reality is not falsifiable and thereby fails to be a scientific theory.

 

[Sheldon]

Depends, how realistic of a simulation are we hypothesizing> A totally realistic simulation non-distinguishable from base reality is not falsifiable and thereby fails to be a scientific theory.

If it is an unfalsifiable idea then it has no scientific basis.