Creation of Universe, Scriptures vs Science

[Valjean]

Nor is string theory, that does it mean it's psuedo-science or fictitious. Right>

It means "string theory's" a misnomer. It's not really an established theory. It's an informal expression of an interesting idea.

 

[Valjean]

Please note Quran verse 21:104 "
"The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records...."

I interpret "fold the heaven like the folding of a sheet" such as space being bent for wormholes". Maybe, I'm wrong about this, but how else could anybody interpret a folding of heaven like a sheet of paper?

That's quite a leap. You're reading an awful lot into that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please note Quran verse 21:104 "
"The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records...."

I interpret "fold the heaven like the folding of a sheet" such as space being bent for wormholes". Maybe, I'm wrong about this, but how else could anybody interpret a folding of heaven like a sheet of paper?

A more logical response is that the author did not know that the Earth was a sphere. The educated population generally knew that the Earth was at least roughly spherical in shape, but that does not mean that everyone knew that. I do believe that Muhammad was supposed to be rather uneducated. This would seem to support that belief.

 

[firedragon]

If so, so what?

It's the justification for science.

What's your justification for supernatural beliefs? That it feels good?

That was not your claim you see.

Your claim: It's irrelevant to you that science has excellent reasons for concluding that the supernatural exists only as concepts / things imagined?

The Question: So what are these "excellent reasons science has" please? And how has science provided overwhelming evidence to this thesis? What is the falsification that was done? Please explain.

 

[firedragon]

But what if the statements are supported? What if they're statements of logic? What if they're pointing out actual, logical errors in your reasoning?

Didnt see any. All I saw so far was one Atheist claiming Brahman exists, and all the other evangelical atheists jumping into defend each other without knowing anything about what the conversation was about. Blindly everyone gets affected and jumps in to defend their fellow evangelist without knowing the context. Thats like a blind defence of the other. Reasons, context, logic, etc etc are not necessary.

 

[rational experiences]

The delayed choice quantum eraser experiment perhaps demonstrates a probability wave materializing into a particle upon an observer's knowledge of which path the probability wave/particle had traveled.

Does Consciousness Create Reality? Double Slit Experiment may show the Answer.

Reality.

Does anybody human create by their human maths designed built human controlled machines owned reality.

No they don't. They follow a string converting mass fusion first. Holy Sion.

Bible teaching your man's adult brother image voice heard was old first origin earth pyramid science. Satan man he said. Memory. Only recordings.

Humans in modern life said we were not Satan. It was memory of science. Caused just by biological men.

Our brother was a human scientist.

Recorded at the end of life. Delayed Satan cloud by ending life. Cooling cloud recording Satan emerged after man had destroyed all life.

Alien hence was last man destruction known.

Father a man in heavenly description was written by human evidence reason to be recorded in earths heavens.

Man... Having copied first thesis science was by vi sion first earth gods state nuclear recording himself. Having destroyed all life.

Reason the teaching was taught man not nuclear copied a cause lost our original physical life presence theirselves.

The state to cause was biolgical life totally destroyed for man image to be included in the preceding state. How and why it occurred.

Status brother satanist sent human life into built carpenter tectonic opening earth mass split as two. Sion. Fusion itself.

Fusion before life.

Why man was now consciously involved in the state gods nuclear recording as a new cause state by scientist.

Half of natural bio life was origin lost in atmospheric cause.

Stated life was meant to exist in a span 200 years instead given 100 instead. Then law fusion broken again with ice support only survived bio about 40 years.

Proof he had in fact caused it. Ice the only reason we still existed.

Water mass. Life beneath water mass concluded it's bio status. Hence memory says we lived under fresh water in heavens about the consisted review man to life under the sea.

As a teaching inferred reasoning. Remember we once owned a water life in different pressure and higher oxygen. Did not eat food. The teaching.

Hence science caused biology human to change in nature to be forced to consume food as radiation fallout removes energy in our bio nature the truth.

Why we die and not exist as a constant. So the light constant does not apply to life at all.

Light only exists in a voiding vacuum why mass could exist and why mass had its light removed. The truth.

Energy types by conscious review seen exists factually naturally formed itself.

Metaphysical means men have applied a summation of belief of what various different energies within mass they reviewed.

As consciousness human is living only.

As bio nuclear irradiated studied of Egyptian mummies. Age rate.

Taught as man caused in science did not nor had not existed before Fu Sion.

Natural holy Sion fusion.

Man's lies Sion by vi Sion.

How and why it was taught father as recording state so man would never believe he began existence in nuclear.

Taught as Satanism.

Why in a studied healer psyche conscious bio reference. Einstein came into the vision. End of life aware as NDE says suddenly realised everything apologised. He said he was wrong.

As a baby I nearly died. Why I lived by choice to be a healer aware of human suffering. Psychic by cause.

Consciousness on earth in two states.

Matter earth energy change experienced by the human as just gases in water cooling change.

As we are mainly water is the teaching in relativity about life consciousness

Never disclude or ignore who you are first by reasoning water. Holy life.

What does water cause itself in cold or heated changes? Your challenge.

The container empty space.

Man decided he wanted to own the container. Meaning our total destruction.

Why he tries to convince rationalists that nothing was everything.

Pretty basic destroyer confession.

You wrote the bible to pre warn you as Rome was attacked in Nero knew Satan irradiation of consciousness was going to return.

Which would remove conscious objectivity into satanic self destruction.

Proving science would begin to study phenomena as the advice itself.

Reality begins with consciousness as human conscious awareness only.

Recording is Ai man's scientific stated artificial reasoned to teach you not to believe it. About it being consciousness.

One word only was holy. Matter means matter not energy.

Energy is without form your preaching. How to get it. Remove mass.

 

[Suave]

A more logical response is that the author did not know that the Earth was a sphere. The educated population generally knew that the Earth was at least roughly spherical in shape, but that does not mean that everyone knew that. I do believe that Muhammad was supposed to be rather uneducated. This would seem to support that belief.

The fourth pillar of Islam, Ramadan fasting, can't be equally followed and adhered to by everybody in the world.
Ramadan fasting rules, as written on behalf of Muhammad in the Quran, requires dawn to dusk fasting for all healthy Islamic followers worldwide during the month of Ramadan. The dawn to dusk fasting rules as written in the Quran does not apply equally to all persons in all regions. This law can't be applied equally to all regions of the world. The period of sunrise to sunset varies according to the latitude of where a person lives. Therefore, equal periods of day and night don't exist for everybody. Consequently, Ramadan sunrise to sunset fasting can't possibly be followed equally by all healthy Muslims. The length of time required for sunrise to sunset fasting during Ramadan is based solely on a person's geographical location. I think it doesn't make any sense and it's unfair that the amount of Ramadan sunrise to sunset fasting time required for each Muslim is different based solely on the latitude of where the Muslim lives. Because the southern most inhabitants experience very short days during summer month of Ramadan, and they would only be required to fast for a few hours a day. The northern most inhabitants experience daylight throughout the month of Ramadan, and they would die from starvation while fasting for a whole month without food and drink. Nowhere in the Quran is it written that people of the polar regions can break their fast at the time of sunset until sunrise of the country next to them, this law was added later in Islam in order to correct Muhammad's ignorance of the Earth's near spherical shape.

 

[rational experiences]

Analogies after 1900s is obvious the advent of the satanic star fall blasting Russia.

As it changed atmospheric records feedback. What a man's father spiritual mind came to believe. By the atmosphere cause.

The warning destroyer inherited mentality.

Men in the past were proven spiritually wise.

 

[rational experiences]

Sciences cause and effect. To change holy cold space vacuum by science maths calculus.

Knew about God sun stone star mass igniting in earths irradiated paths to return

As it burnt it forces a ripple through space as voiding causes cool gas to keep igniting in cooling. Of the falling star mass.

Why earth gained a ripple effect in its heavens that is not real to fusion first.

 

[Suave]

That's quite a leap. You're reading an awful lot into that.

Perhaps my interpretation of the heavens being folded like a sheet of paper was a subjective interpretation of this describing a wormhole, My interpretation of Quran verse 21:104 as describing a wormhole might have been influenced on me by a Youtube video titled Science behind Interstellar explained what is actually a wormhole. The video has a background projection of stars with the video's narrator using a folded sheet of paper as a visual prop explaining how a wormhole could allow for faster than light travel.

If I had not watched that video, I perhaps might not have subjectively interpreted the heaves being folded like a sheet of paper as describing a wormhole.

 

[KWED]

Then you do not.look at the evidence offered.

It has been offered the proof of God is the Messenger, their life and the Message, in that order, which makes them One in God.

This is just more question begging and circular reasoning.
How can "god's messenger" be evidence of god when without evidence of god in the first place,"god's messenger" is just another unsupported claim?

So be honest, how deep have you looked into that evidence?

 

[KWED]

You lost the context of the reply, go back and look at the comment I replied to.

Regards Tony

I have looked and it seems like a reasonable response. I explained clearly what I meant and gave analogies to illustrate. You will also notice that I presented it in the form of questions, thus prompting you to clarify your position.
Perhaps you now need to explain why you believe it isn't a reasonable response, rather than just asserting it?
(And there, in a nutshell, is the difference between the theist and the sceptic)

 

[KWED]

Point being, the Holy Quran hypothesized the existence of wormholes,

No it didn't. It contains vague passages that modern apologists (mainly Harun Yahoo) reword, expand, extrapolate, reinterpret and stretch beyond breaking point to make these ridiculous and repeatedly debunked claims.
Cite the specific verses and I will show why it is not referring to wormholes.

this being hypothesized nearly 1,200 years before modern era science hypothesized their existence; the Holy Quran had advanced knowledge of warped space, which may have been from advanced intelligence beyond the Earthly lifetime of the prophet Muhammad.

If Allah was using the Quran to impart knowledge that was beyond the realms of 7th century discovery, why didn't he clearly reveal something useful, like boiling drinking water, rather than vague and arcane references to things that might not even exist?
Just think of the millions, even billions of innocent lives he could have saved. All those children dying in agony. If he does exist, god is a right c**t.

 

[KWED]

Maxim Makukov refutes the notion of Wow signal of the terrestrial genetic code as simply being numerology.

".Hi, I'm one of the authors of the papers being discussed here (thanks for pointing out this discussion, Simone). Saying right off: I am not going to make war and press on changing anything in the wiki-article. I'll appreciate if the wiki-editors here will take my note into account; but if not - well, I can live with that, From the discussion here I see that the point is not whether our papers are ID or not (they are not; if that matters - I share entirely naturalistic worldview). Rather, the point is whether they are numerology or not. As I guess, this is a short way of saying that the data we described might be just the result of our arbitrary "juggling" until we found some "desired patterns". In our recent paper (mentioned here by the user Andy Shepp) we devote a good chunk of text to discussing this very point, so here I'll instead make a comparison between our study and the Bible Code (the comparison brought about by PZ Myers, I suppose). First - there is no any scientific hypothesis behind the Bible code (at least none that I've heard of. God? That's not a hypothesis, since the notion of God is notoriously ill-defined. Without such restriction, you are free to choose/invent any method you like for data analysis. In our case, we have the working hypothesis (that of Sagan and Crick & Orgel), and we attempt to develop analysis methodology appropriate for that hypothesis - the condition which greatly restricts the options (in particular, we are trying to follow similar basic logic that was used to construct Earth-made messages such as the Arecibo message, etc.). Second - the analogy with the Bible code is irrelevant simply from statistical standpoint. In one case the data (Bible) is millions of letters long - what a scope for opportunities. In another case, the data (genetic code) is only a few hundred bits. Next, the Bible is but one of many books ever written, while the genetic code is unique (with several minor variations). The Bible is written with a writing system which is itself completely arbitrary and is but one of many existing writing systems; in contrast, in our approach we do not rely in any way on arbitrary cultural codes, relying instead on the language of abstract logic and mathematics (yes, I know not everyone agrees that even mathematics might be useful for communication with another intelligent species; still, if you attempt to do that, first of all you'll most probalby resort to logic/mathematics, not Hebrew, right?). ----------- Of course, I by no means imply that our data unambiguously supports the hypothesis of Crick & Orgel. My point is that the data favors this hypothesis to the extent which makes it unreasonable to dismiss it as numerology just like the Bible code. As typically happens in such situations, the problem is that it is difficult to find an objective criterion for judging opinions and biases." - Maxim Makukov

Reference: Wikipedia Talk Panspermia Talkanspermia - Wikipedia

"Man making extraordinary claim claims his claim is reasonable" shock.

 

[KWED]

So far though, regardless of being godly or not, the first verses describes the big bang quite well.
Far in more detail for it to be a coincidence.
It does not prove god, but it is something worth examining further.

What?!
Genesis does not remotely accurately describe the Big Bang! Moreover, some of the description is categorically wrong.
What you are experiencing is called "confirmation bias".

 

[KWED]

Please let us agree that given two equally plausible explanations for a given phenomenon the one that makes the fewest assumptions is usually correct., this does not mean always correct. Right?

So you are now throwing probability out of the window when earlier it was the basis of your argument.

Yeah, that should work.

 

[KWED]

I have God well pegged as being a sims controller, a reality based virtual reality programmer of human consciousness. There'd be nothing magical about a technologically advanced civilization , conducting an ancestral simulation by a super-computer. Likewise, there'd be nothing magical about a technologically advanced extra-terrestrial civilization simulating a universe for their amusement.

Yet more unsupported assumptions.

 

[Suave]

"Man making extraordinary claim claims his claim is reasonable" shock.

Honestly, I've done the same, I've made extraordinary conjectures I'd consider as being plausible explanations for the cause of an observed phenomenon. of unknown cause So, I'm not at all surprise others offer plausible explanations for explaining observed phenomenon of unknown causes.

 

[KWED]

Correct, wormholes are hypothetical structures. I'm guessing negative energy would be required for traversable wormholes, negative energy is conjecture. I'm guessing the Holy Quran being somewhat vague about wormholes is because the Quran's original nomadic tribal audience would not have been able to comprehend a detailed model of a wormhole.

Quranic Verse 21:104

Firstly, the word used in the Quran means "rolled", like a scroll, not folded.
Second, it is referring to the day of judgement, a final and single act, definitely not a constant, ongoing phenomenon.

What it means is that on the Day of Judgement, Allah will end his creation. The analogy is to show the end of all things. Renowned classical scholar Ibn Kathir explains...
What is meant by Sijill is book. As-Suddi said concerning this Ayah: "As-Sijill is an angel who is entrusted with the records; when a person dies, his Book (of deeds) is taken up to As-Sijill, and he rolls it up and puts it away until the Day of Resurrection.'' But the correct view as narrated from Ibn `Abbas is that As-Sijill refers to the record (of deeds). This was also reported from him by `Ali bin Abi Talhah and Al-`Awfi. This was also stated by Mujahid, Qatadah and others. This was the view favored by Ibn Jarir, because this usage is well-known in the (Arabic) language. Based on the above, the meaning is: the Day when the heaven will be rolled up like a scroll.

 

[Suave]

So you are now throwing probability out of the window when earlier it was the basis of your argument.

Yeah, that should work.

Of course, I could be wrong about accepting Nick Bostrom's simulation argument's third premise as being most likely true, I suppose premise one of Bostrom's simulation argument might be more likely to be true than the third premise of his simulation argument, which would mean we are not likely living in an ancestral simulation.