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Creation vs evolution

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
In simple terms Evolution was developed as an explanation of the natural world. Ideas are moulded into hypothesis, the hypothesis are tested and if found wanting changed.
Eventually, when it looks like it is the correct explanation it becomes a Theory.
That's hogwash....they've got y'all believing anything,

Ever hear of contemporaneous "conflicting theories"?


From Phyletic gradualism - Wikipedia :


Phyletic gradualism is a model of evolution which theorizes that most speciation is slow, uniform and gradual.[1] When evolution occurs in this mode, it is usually by the steady transformation of a whole species into a new one (through a process called anagenesis). In this view** no clear line of demarcation exists between an ancestral species and a descendant species, unless splitting occurs. The theory is contrasted with punctuated equilibrium.

(The next paragraph says).....


Phyletic gradualism contrasts with the theory of punctuated equilibrium, which proposes that most evolution occurs isolated in rare episodes of rapid evolution, when a single species splits into two distinct species, followed by a long period of stasis or non-change. These models both contrast with variable-speed evolution ("variable speedism"), which maintains that different species evolve at different rates, and that there is no reason to stress one rate of change over another.[3][4]


So, how does "most evolution" occur? Slow or rapid? Your leaders don't know! Yet, both are 'theories'!

Disagreements are quid pro quo among Evolutionists.

** A theory is simply a view
 
Two thousand years ago God stepped out of eternity and into time in the form of the Son Jesus Christ, and after having defeted death and hell reign over mankind he stepped out of time and back into eternity...

So his a time traveller too

We do not got 36.000.000 year memory... so who could tell such things?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
This a flawed egocentric view on your part that those who do not share your view and belief concerning the interpretation of the Bible are not worthy to interpret the Bible including thousands of scholars who spent their adult lives studying the Bible and disagree with you.

Those scholars have no knowledge or understanding of spiritual things in the Bible.

There are two aspects to the bible
There is the written word which anyone can read.
Then there is the spirit of the word in the Bible which is not written.

Which takes Spiritual awareness to see and understand with knowledge of spiritual things that are in the Bible.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them because they are Spiritually discerned.
This means that there are things in the Bible that takes Spiritual awareness to see and understand what the Spirit of God is saying in the Bible. Which are not written. Because they are Spiritually discerned.

In the book of Mark 13, Jesus fortold what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is
And when it will happen.
And by who can commit it.

This is where Spiritual discernment comes into play In Mark 13. Can you discerned Mark 13, what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is
And when it will happen
And by who can commit it.
It's all there in Mark 13.
As Christ Jesus fortold.
 
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We don't go there...

who would've know...

So how do I figure out how to do wine...

You should try it...

You should...

It is created through a natural chemical process...

The same in the store.

Ideas flurish in school, but someone needs to tell their students the way it is. someone needs to inform the students the way it works...

So why don't my absinthe become absinthe, I need to try harder and this time over and over again...

"Jue de pomme" is translated to "the absinthe drinker"

So why doesn't my apple juice become absinthe...

According to many new research it is made out of something else..

"Jue de pomme"

There are several ways to overcome such horrible things as apples.

One way is to buy whiskey and hope it warm up the body...

But we're still on creation...

Let there be a whiskey bottle, filled with whiskey...
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I just did, when you said there is noting in the book of Mark 13,

You just proved my point, you have no knowledge or understanding what the Bible confirms.
If you did, you would be able to see,
Mark 13 does in fact give what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is
And when it will happen.
And by who can commit it.

Hey your the one that claims to know the Bible, So prove yourself. By explaining that of Mark 13. What the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is
And when it will happen
And by who can commit it.

So by all means, you said you know the bible so by all means explain.
This is just an empty claim on your part. By not supporting your claim when challenged you tacitly admitted that you were wrong.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Look, it takes a person who is knowledgeable of the bible,
You can not just take anyone. And expect them to understand without knowledge about the bible. To explain the bible.

No more than you can take anyone without knowledge of science to have them explain the science of Evolution.

That is true. But that is all that is needed. Your spiritual demands are pure BS.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
This why Christians don't have to test the bible all because Christians already know the Bible is true
How do you know?

Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit and you're telling Jesus you don't have to do what he says. If you want to say an apple tree is an orange tree, that's your call. You're still wrong, but it's not going to make you believable.

That's like going to take a test, you take a test to show if your qualified or not.
And you've been tested on the bible and its history to see if you're qualified to talk about it?

Where as the bible did not have to take any test to be qualified, The bible was qualified right from the start.
Why were books debated for the canon?

The bible has not been disproven by no Christians.
*tries to work out the grammatical logic of this statement* No double negatives, but this is a triple negative, sorta, so ...?

Look, if a Christian stood out against the bible, then they are not a true Christian.
Or they are, but they no longer commit idolatry? I worship God, not a book.

If a Christian does not believe in the creation as described in the Bible, then they are not a true Christian according to the bible.
According to whom specifically in the bible? And why should we believe the person I feel you will say said it?

No it's not a sign of weakness, it's a sign that the bible does not need to be tested by a Christian.
There's a reason herbal supplement makers don't want to fall under the FDA.

And why is Gideon allowed to have God take tests to prove His godness if we're not allowed to?

No true Christian will go against the bible.
Why?

If a Christian stands against the bible, that Christian is a false Christian.
I don't confuse texts with deities.

We wouldn't even HAVE a New Testament had Jesus not criticized the Old one.

If Jesus can criticize, why can't we?

A "True Christian" would follow Jesus' example, no?

By your "logic" nothing should ever be tested to see if it is true. By your "logic" everyone should believe ANYTHING they hear.
I wonder if Faith would just buy a car off any salesman without looking up carfax or something.

We test to see if we properly understand the conditions under which rainbows form. We test to make sure we understand what it is the produces rainbows.
And I actually managed to drive through the end of a rainbow one day and no pot of gold. I felt crushed. :p

By what and how would you go about to test the bible.
The bible isn't a single book and doesn't have a single purpose. It can be as simple as determining whether a translation is accurate to the original language copy. It can also be complex, like studying the behaviors of certain groups to see if they are truly like the bible said they were.

You can not just take anyone. And expect them to understand without knowledge about the bible. To explain the bible.
And your qualifications are?

That's like saying, I know it's true, if i let the air out of the tire it will go flat, but let me test it by letting the air out. To see if it's true.
If I'm spending lots of money on a tire that supposedly won't go flat, yes, I want proof before I pay for it and put it on my car. Do you just buy anything you see in commercials?

Which takes Spiritual awareness to see and understand with knowledge of spiritual things that are in the Bible.
If a spirit is telling you something is in the bible when it isn't, I'd pick another spirit to listen to.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Those scholars have no knowledge or understanding of spiritual things in the Bible.
How can I tell whether a scholar has knowledge or understanding of spiritual things? Without asking you first, that is?
There are two aspects to the bible
There is the written word which anyone can read.
Then there is the spirit of the word in the Bible which is not written.
How does that last one differ from open slather? What stops anyone saying anything they like and being irrefutably correct?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That's hogwash....they've got y'all believing anything,

Ever hear of contemporaneous "conflicting theories"?

From Phyletic gradualism - Wikipedia :


Phyletic gradualism is a model of evolution which theorizes that most speciation is slow, uniform and gradual.[1] When evolution occurs in this mode, it is usually by the steady transformation of a whole species into a new one (through a process called anagenesis). In this view** no clear line of demarcation exists between an ancestral species and a descendant species, unless splitting occurs. The theory is contrasted with punctuated equilibrium.

(The next paragraph says).....


Phyletic gradualism contrasts with the theory of punctuated equilibrium, which proposes that most evolution occurs isolated in rare episodes of rapid evolution, when a single species splits into two distinct species, followed by a long period of stasis or non-change. These models both contrast with variable-speed evolution ("variable speedism"), which maintains that different species evolve at different rates, and that there is no reason to stress one rate of change over another.[3][4]


So, how does "most evolution" occur? Slow or rapid? Your leaders don't know! Yet, both are 'theories'!

Disagreements are quid pro quo among Evolutionists.

** A theory is simply a view

This view is a problem, because the reality of the rates of evolution do vary but even punctuated equilibrium (the modern view) takes place over hundreds of thousands and millions of years, but varies in rate by the evidence. They are in reality not completely different hypothesis on the rate as to when evolution takes place over time. The two hypothesis are not in conflict, because phyletic gradualism has simply been modified by the evidence and is described today by punctuated equilibrium to include periods of relatively rapid evolution, but still in relatively long periods of time. As with all sciences knowledge changes over time. The same thing has happened in physics. Newtonian physics failed to describe small scale physics, Quantum Mechanics developed to explain physics on the small scale.

How long does evolution take? Based on the physical evidence of fossils from different strata and dated at different times. Measured genetic change rates over time do contribute to understanding the time involved. There are environments that are extreme to not allow genetic diversity that evolution will be limited with time. Observed evolution taking place in rain forests today show evidence of fairly rapid evolution.

Fairly rapid evolution evidence is found for whales and horses.
 
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It is called science!!

It wasn't written in an ancient book.
In simple terms Evolution was developed as an explanation of the natural world. Ideas are moulded into hypothesis, the hypothesis are tested and if found wanting changed.
Eventually, when it looks like it is the correct explanation it becomes a Theory.

BUT, science continues to test, it always will. There is a remote chance evolution will be disproved...but I'm not holding my breath.
The Bible has already been disproven.[/QUOTE

The same scientist that came up with carbon emissions are warming the ocean thus putting Florida underwater by 2008. The same scientist that say that their are more than two genders? These "scientists" are just as bad as politicians!
 

siti

Well-Known Member
That's hogwash....they've got y'all believing anything,

Ever hear of contemporaneous "conflicting theories"?
Phyletic gradualism and punctuated equilibrium are hypotheses - wikipedia might call them 'theories' but they are not theories in the scientific sense, they are hypotheses. Eventually, one will be disproven and the other will take precedence - or more likely, a better explanation of all the data on which both are based will emerge and that will become the preferred hypothesis and, eventually, if it stands the test of time and observational confirmation, a theory.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
The same scientist that say that their are more than two genders?
Because technically there are, if you look at the genetics and hormones involved. Other myths knew of non-binary people. Wonder why the Word of God didn't figure it out if those people actually existed? How does limiting humanity to two genders make God seem powerful?
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
The same scientist that came up with carbon emissions are warming the ocean thus putting Florida underwater by 2008. The same scientist that say that their are more than two genders? These "scientists" are just as bad as politicians!

It's a good job we ignore all these scientists. What ever you do, don't get in an aeroplane, don't drive that car, stop taking those medicines, switch those electric lights off....oh, and stop posting on your computer.
All the fault of scientists - just as bad as politicians.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
How can I tell whether a scholar has knowledge or understanding of spiritual things? Without asking you first, that is?

How does that last one differ from open slather? What stops anyone saying anything they like and being irrefutably correct?

Scholars can say whatever they may want to say, but will it line up to what the Spirit of the word will say ?

A person may say whatever they may want, and what stops them, showing themselves that whatever they may say, doesn't line up to what the bible will say. But then that will hardly stop them.

But then people who don't have no knowledge or understanding of the bible will say anything. And people who listens to them, they to having no knowledge or understanding of the Bible, will think their correct.
So what you have is, The blind leading the blind.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Scholars can say whatever they may want to say, but will it line up to what the Spirit of the word will say ?

A person may say whatever they may want, and what stops them, showing themselves that whatever they may say, doesn't line up to what the bible will say. But then that will hardly stop them.

But then people who don't have no knowledge or understanding of the bible will say anything. And people who listens to them, they to having no knowledge or understanding of the Bible, will think their correct.
So what you have is, The blind leading the blind.

Your understanding of the Bible has been shown to be lacking. Why do you keep making claims that you cannot support?

Once again, when you simply handwave an argument in that argument can be dismissed with a handwave.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
How do you know?

Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit and you're telling Jesus you don't have to do what he says. If you want to say an apple tree is an orange tree, that's your call. You're still wrong, but it's not going to make you believable.

Your unbelievable, you show yourself of not having any knowledge or understanding what Jesus ment by Judge a tree by it's fruit. This being two folded,
Does what a person say line to to what the Bible will say so are they just speaking into the wind. are they following to what the Bible will say or are they just making up as they go along.

It looks like you, yourself has no knowledge or understanding what the will say or confirm's.


And you've been tested on the bible and its history to see if you're qualified to talk about it?

I don't need to be tested, what the Bible, has to say and confirm's.

You do seeing you have no knowledge or understanding about what the Bible confirms.


Why were books debated for the canon?

Maybe if you get an understanding as to who guided those, to have certain books put to complete the Bible, So that it would be a beneficial to those who read the Bible.


*tries to work out the grammatical logic of this statement* No double negatives, but this is a triple negative, sorta, so ...?


Or they are, but they no longer commit idolatry? I worship God, not a book.

Again you show yourself as ignorant of the fact, that the bible as being God's word.
The bible is here, to help people to know what God expects and want people to know why certain things were done.

So what your saying is, that if you went to buy a new car, you would never look at the owners manual to see what the manufacture of the car, has to say how to keep the car in it's good running state.

But you would just take wild guess's, oh maybe this will work or that will work.

The bible is God's manual for us to know what is good for us to obtain eternal life.

Without the bible, how would you know how to judge the tree by its fruit ?
Unless owners manual ( bible ) told you how to judge the tree by it's fruit ?

It seems your double talking yourself, to say you don't need the Bible, but yet you quote things from the bible, that you say you don't need. What's up with all that Go Figure.


According to whom specifically in the bible? And why should we believe the person I feel you will say said it?

Again you show yourself as being ignorant. If to what you say is correct and you did say and I quote ( And why should we believe the person I feel you will say said it)

Then why test what you don't believe in nor care about ?


There's a reason herbal supplement makers don't want to fall under the FDA.

And why is Gideon allowed to have God take tests to prove His godness if we're not allowed to?

Again you show your ignorance,
Because Gideon wanted to make sure he was getting the right message from the right God and not from the false god.

If I were to get a message I'd want to know who is exactly is giving the message. Is it from God himself or is it from the false god that leads people astray. Of not checking to see who exactly is giving the message first. Is it God himself or the false god ?

Why?


I don't confuse texts with deities.

We wouldn't even HAVE a New Testament had Jesus not criticized the Old one.

If Jesus can criticize, why can't we?

Again you show your ignorance. Jesus never criticized the old testament, why would Jesus criticize his own word.
Your sure not making any sense there.

Again you show your ignorance of not knowing exactly who Jesus is ?

A "True Christian" would follow Jesus' example, no?

Why would a True Christian criticize Jesus words.


I wonder if Faith would just buy a car off any salesman without looking up carfax or something.
I've bought many cars in my day, before there was any Carfax. By my experience of buying cars tells me what to look for, when buying a car.
Just like my experience of studying the Bible, tells me what the letter of the word in the bible is saying, and what the Spirit of the word in the Bible is saying.

Therefore you have two aspects of the bible. One being the letter of the word that is in the Bible.
And the spirit of the word that is in the Bible.
This why Jesus said--"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"John 6:63.

Therefore, there are two aspects in the Bible, one being the letter of the word
in the Bible. Which is written down.
And the other is the spirit of the word, which Jesus spoke about. Which is not written down, but takes Spiritual awareness to see and understand,
What is written down.
Here's a good example in the book of Matthew 24:2 Jesus said in talking about the temple buildings, "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down"

Now over in Israel you have what the Jews calls the wailing wall, and it's part of the temple buildings, but yet it's still standing.

So when does that wall come down,
to fulfil the prophecy that Jesus gave there shall not be one stone left upon another ?

Jesus fortold throughout Matthew 24, when that will happen?

Now Remember the words that Jesus speaks are spirit. So do you know and understand what the Spirit of the word is saying, In Matthew 24 ?
That when the fulfillment of the prophecy that Jesus gave in Matthew 24:2, comes to it's fulfillment ?



And I actually managed to drive through the end of a rainbow one day and no pot of gold. I felt crushed. :p


The bible isn't a single book and doesn't have a single purpose. It can be as simple as determining whether a translation is accurate to the original language copy. It can also be complex, like studying the behaviors of certain groups to see if they are truly like the bible said they were.


And your qualifications are?


If I'm spending lots of money on a tire that supposedly won't go flat, yes, I want proof before I pay for it and put it on my car. Do you just buy anything you see in commercials?


If a spirit is telling you something is in the bible when it isn't, I'd pick another spirit to listen to.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Your understanding of the Bible has been shown to be lacking. Why do you keep making claims that you cannot support?

Once again, when you simply handwave an argument in that argument can be dismissed with a handwave.


There two aspects to the bible.
The one being the letter of the word in the Bible.
The other is the spirit of the word which is in the Bible also.

Have you any idea as to which is which.

In the book of Matthew 24: 2 Jesus in speaking about the temple buildlings said
"There shall not be one stone left upon another that shall not be thrown down"

But yet there is what the Jews calls over in Israel the wailing wall, and it's still standing.
Do you know exactly when that wall will come down ?
Jesus fortold in Matthew 24 when that wall will come down.
Now will you understand what the Spirit of the word in Matthew 24 is saying, when that wall will come down to fulfil the prophecy that Jesus gave, there shall not be one stone left upon another.
When does this take place?
 
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