BiggDaddyWilly
New Member
Why is there a need for a creation story or myth in most religions? Is it necessary to convey the messages with in any sacred text? Why do you entrust one story of creation over all others?
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Creation... WHY?
- Thread starter BiggDaddyWilly
- Start date
Welcome to the Forum!
The need arises from the absence of a an answer to the question "What am I?"
It also observed that things have a begining and and end, i.e. a cycle of creation. This we see in ourselves, so at some point the mind asks about ones birth and death and that of others and the world.
Personally I choose logic over science or scriptures. I am happy to consider logic based on science or scriptures. From the logic I have studied there is no birth or death, no creation as such, rather everything exists in-it-self. The apparent seperation and creation is down to our perception and misunderstanding based on what we take ourselves to be. Creation still occurs but their must be a substratum on which it occurs, I am That.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Human beings need a cultural frame. and before the days of advanced science and debates about evolution, human beings gave birth to cosmogonic myths to describe the world they live in, the environment, and to give legitimacy and autochthonic breath into their society.
all over the world cultures and societies gave birth to creation stories, all continents have cultures that have colorful myths, some are based on duality, some on life out of death, such as in the Norse mythology in which the earth was created out of the slain body of the giant Ymir, and then there are the worlds of cycles, in these creation stories there is an endless struggle between order and chaos in an endless cycle of creation and destruction, the Hopi believed the first world was destroyed in fire, the second was frozen, and the third was destroyed by flood, in Hopi belief, we live in the 4th world, which will come to an end as well.
all over the world cultures and societies gave birth to creation stories, all continents have cultures that have colorful myths, some are based on duality, some on life out of death, such as in the Norse mythology in which the earth was created out of the slain body of the giant Ymir, and then there are the worlds of cycles, in these creation stories there is an endless struggle between order and chaos in an endless cycle of creation and destruction, the Hopi believed the first world was destroyed in fire, the second was frozen, and the third was destroyed by flood, in Hopi belief, we live in the 4th world, which will come to an end as well.
This makes sense to me.
I think that generally, the role of the creation myth is to provide a context for everything else.
...which just made a light bulb pop on in my head: suddenly, creationist opposition to evolution makes much more sense to me. I don't see their position as any more correct, but I can appreciate their resistance when I think of it as undermining the foundation of their whole worldview instead of cold acceptance or rejection of scientific evidence.
From my perspective evolution can occur. Change is observable everywhere and is common as day turning to night. Evolution had to have a begining, be it a big-bang or some chemical reaction. However a big-bang or chemical reaction etc needs a substratum in which to occur. That substratum existed then, at the begining of time and exists now. What is that substratum?
BiggDaddyWilly
New Member
The fundamental problem is there is no PROOF!!! And I can clearly understand a desire to know how or if there was a beginning, but the there is not anything other then scriptures to suggest how this started. And if you look at scriptures from a multitude of religions, they're different.
Is there an absolute need for the theories of creation in religion? The fact is none of us, no matter how strong your faith is can know anything about the existence of an afterlife of creation in our lifetime. Not until death can this truth be truly revealed. So why teach these stories as truth, with no evidence?
Is there an absolute need for the theories of creation in religion? The fact is none of us, no matter how strong your faith is can know anything about the existence of an afterlife of creation in our lifetime. Not until death can this truth be truly revealed. So why teach these stories as truth, with no evidence?
I see your concern/dilema/question.
Because we need to explain who we are, the mind asks it. You are right, there is no proof, all we know is that we exist, right now, and now, and now.
Consider that the sciptures addresses the needs of all people, what ever level of understanding or education. Some need an answer, some are satisified others look further. That is why I think, it comes down to answering a question. The answer helps one to find God (from a scriptual perspective) or to confirm we are matter, form a materialist or atheist perspective.
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tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
The Big bang needs no substratum (or underlying base) in which to occur.From my perspective evolution can occur. Change is observable everywhere and is common as day turning to night. Evolution had to have a begining, be it a big-bang or some chemical reaction. However a big-bang or chemical reaction etc needs a substratum in which to occur. That substratum existed then, at the begining of time and exists now. What is that substratum?
There is no "space", "time" or "matter" outside of the singularity/universe. Nor do the physical laws of our universe apply outside of the singularity/universe.
In truth, the answer to "What happened before the big bang?", is --- Nothing
I agree, there is no substratum, unless you take away something i.e. take away the big-bang, matter or time.
And nothing is only known from the abscence of something. There is no seperation between the thing and no-thing, except in imagination. For a room to be empty we must first recognise the walls. For the universe not to exist we must imagine nothing, space. There is only One but various perceptions of It.
BiggDaddyWilly
New Member
My issue with that is a myth of creation does not confirm who we are. You will be you regardless if humans spawned from a God, or through evolution, or if we were the product of a radiated piece of crap, that does not change who you are as a person.
And for you to say it helps one to find God, is a statement that concludes that there is a God out there. Why is it important to find "God", and from the conclusion of atheist or scientists we are matter regardless, the existence of a God or a creation doesn't change that we ARE matter.
Scriptures may address of a desire to know what happened but does not provide an answer that can be shown to be true, but is taught & preached as true.
The Big Bang doesn't explain what happens before or if there was a before, or if there was a Big Bang, but I view that as science attempting to explain something with no proof, which is a fundamental belief within the scientific community.
And for you to say it helps one to find God, is a statement that concludes that there is a God out there. Why is it important to find "God", and from the conclusion of atheist or scientists we are matter regardless, the existence of a God or a creation doesn't change that we ARE matter.
Scriptures may address of a desire to know what happened but does not provide an answer that can be shown to be true, but is taught & preached as true.
The Big Bang doesn't explain what happens before or if there was a before, or if there was a Big Bang, but I view that as science attempting to explain something with no proof, which is a fundamental belief within the scientific community.
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
BDW, when you bake a cake you follow certain rules right? If you didn't the cake would not be completed correctly.
It is no different in life, we have a goal in mind, and depending on the goal for our life we find reliance and comfort in learning the ingredients we think will help us achieve that goal. For many it is the stories of sacred text that appear to be the ingredients and steps to making a cake, at least metaphorically speaking.
Now if we find a recipe that works well for a cake, and someone comes along and says hey I have another way to make a cake, we would be hesitant to try it, because we have already reached our goals. So it is the same with creation stories and most of religions as we know them.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
If by proof you mean absolute empirical evidence, you are correct.
However physics, from Newtonian gravity to Hartle-Hawking quantum mechanics point to and support the Big Bang Theory.
aymen amir
peace
the believe in creation is not depending on a myth . it is a fact no matter how many people try to deny it , cause people who actually don't believe in creation don't have the answer to most of the questions asked by people such as were life come from and how will life end .
sonofskeptish
It is what it is
Translation:
While creation is a myth, my strong emotional need for a creator is more imortant than truth or fact. No matter how many people provide me with mountians of evidence for evolution, I will blindly believe the creation myth. And to help me deny evolution (the study of how living things change over time) I will redefine evolution using the definition of a different field of science called abiogenesis (the study of how life could have started from non-living matter) which will buy me a few years of denial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
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AxisMundi
E Pluribus Unum!!!
In some religions, a creation myth merely explained (pre-science) where we come from.
As human beings can readily see "creation" in action, ie birth. Many religions refer to their creator deity as Father and/or Mother.
In other religions, the Abrahamics in particular, the creation myth, coupled with others such as the Flood myth and Job story, attempt to place some ultimate authority in said deity, and through him, ultimate power in the clergy.
AxisMundi
E Pluribus Unum!!!
A fact is a measurable quality. A fact stands up to the scientific method. A fact can be tested for with repeatable, predictable results under laboratory conditions, and those tests, and results, stand up to simple peer review.
The creation myths, as found in the Abrahamic religions for this debate, do not come close to fulfilling the criteria for moving those myths into the realms of fact.
The order of appearence for everything from the earth and stars to the land and oceans to animal, and human, life itself is compeltely backwards in the biblical creation myth.
Draka
Wonder Woman
What nation is that? I've never heard of any Christian Theocracy anywhere. If it exists then I guess it wouldn't be surprising to have Christians in it, but I'd still like to know where this legendary nation is...and what does it have to do with this thread?
Draka
Wonder Woman
Not angry, you sure do presume a lot.
It's not obvious the U.S. is a Christian country because it's not. It's a secular country that was founded by deists and secularists. Just because you want something to be so doesn't mean it is.
Also, again, what does this have to do with this thread anyway? As far as I can see it doesn't have one thing to do with this thread. So if you really want to continue this line of...whatever this is...then I suggest you start another thread, or better yet, look for one of the many already in existence where someone claims the U.S. is a Christian country and they are shown they are wrong. Would save time.