camanintx
Well-Known Member
So glad I disabled my irony meter before reading this.
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Creationist objections to plant evolution?
- Thread starter mycorrhiza
- Start date
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Pretty cool yes! You learn something about flowers you never knew watching that video. It is truly amazing.
Something else I object to is plants becoming meat eaters. They are supposed to use the sun to get energy, some species just have no manners!!!
I don't know how I missed this thread before. I do find it curious that literalistic Biblical creationists do not seem to argue these points. I blame ignorance: most people are very plant stupid. I also blame the human superiority complex: arrogant humans are most concerned with ideas that will knock them off that pedestal of superiority they've stuck themselves on. Showing plants evolve doesn't do that. Showing humans evolved from a so-called "lesser" animal life form does.
dust1n
Zindīq
There are only three truly carnivorous plants in the world (that I've heard of so far, one resides here in Pensacola). Why God only put 3 in those kinds but millions upon millions in some of the other 'kinds' is beyond me.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Actually there are more than three.
"Pitcher-plants"
"Sun-dew plants"
"Fly traps"
"Bladderworts"
"Corkscrew plants"
The first three have multiple genus within them.
There are also multiple "borderline" carnivores.
wa:do
"Pitcher-plants"
"Sun-dew plants"
"Fly traps"
"Bladderworts"
"Corkscrew plants"
The first three have multiple genus within them.
There are also multiple "borderline" carnivores.
wa:do
dust1n
Zindīq
At, let me repharse that. There are only three species of plant that get all of their nutrients AND all of their energy through respiration. My botanist teacher referred to them as 'truly carnivourous'. Supposedly, all the carbon acquired by the plants is through dead materials. I'm really having trouble finding the info online for it, and since I'm out of town for my brother's wedding, I don't got my school notes on me to find out the local species. Give me some time though and I will see what I can find.
Also found holoparasites, but those are quite what I was thinking of. Supposedly this local plant acquires it's carbon by adsorbing the carbon of dead animals specifically, such as flies and worms.
Sorry about misspeaking, do it far too often. I'll see what I can find.
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painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
All I know is all of the ones I listed are considered "true carnivores"... 
But I'm not a botanist. Get back on critters and I'll be happy.
wa:do
But I'm not a botanist. Get back on critters and I'll be happy.
wa:do
shawn001
Well-Known Member
We have Darlingtonia californica in Oregon here on the coast, a Pitcher plant.
Darlingtonia californica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Darlingtonia californica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
dust1n
Zindīq
All I know is all of the ones I listed are considered "true carnivores"...
But I'm not a botanist. Get back on critters and I'll be happy.
wa:do
Yeah, I'm having that trouble to. I guess the way my teacher was suggesting that it was truly carnivorous was that it was incapable of photosynthesis and had to rely on the ingestion of animal material for energy. But "True Carnivores" on the internet just seems to imply that the plant eats meat. Which would make it omnivorous, I would think. Maybe I can e-mail my ol' professor and get back to the thread.
EDIT: I went ahead an e-mailed her, so when I get a reply (if I do) I will post the information I find out.
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painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I know the other groups are pretty obscure (at least as being known for hunting)... they seem to specialize in hunting microorganisms like protozoa and water fleas.
wa:do
wa:do
dust1n
Zindīq
Yea, a lot of them seem to be submerged species suspended from sunlight anyway, so they aren't even capable of photosynthesizing, even if they had chlorophyll (or some other pigment). I need to look more into how exactly these types of plants produce energy, and whether it would be considered respiration (I would think that's the only way to eat something else).
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
From what I remember... venus flytraps and pitcher plants still photosynthesize... they just live in soils too poor in nutrients (like nitrogen, phosphorus) to support them, so they get their nutrients from dead critters.
wa:do
wa:do
dust1n
Zindīq
Exactly. That's where I remember the distinction being made in class (like school-class, not biology-class). Apparently there is one around here that doesn't photosynthesize and isn't a parasite on other plants. OH woo is the internet when trying to find super details...
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
We have "Indian pipes" (aka "corpse flower") which are non-photosynthetic plants... they feed solely on decaying vegetation. You usually only see them in the deep woods.
wa:do
dust1n
Zindīq
We have "Indian pipes" (aka "corpse flower") which are non-photosynthetic plants... they feed solely on decaying vegetation. You usually only see them in the deep woods.
wa:do
OH I love those. The color variation is so amazing. Once you get rid of that pesky chlorophyll, you can be all kinds of amazing colors. I suspect if these come in the deep woods, they might have adapted since they weren't able to compete for sunlight.
Fascinating none-the-less. Had I went on the continue in biology, I would have went more into botany. The sheer ability to reproduce and variate in so many ways is astounding.The Gingko Tree has to be one of the most amazing species ever!!
And these are just babies! So simple yet so resilient. It's a shame they will likely be gone in the coming centuries.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Yeah, I should have studied plants more than I did.... but I had to cut my last year of university short due to my budget, so I never got to take botany.
One of the professors I worked under was our schools botanist. She specialized in trees and how they move nutrients through their tissues. So I got have some fun discussions with her on the subject.
It amazes me that trees are more than 90% dead material and the only living part of the tree other than the leaves is a just handful of layers of cells between the heartwood and the bark. It's crazy.
wa:do
One of the professors I worked under was our schools botanist. She specialized in trees and how they move nutrients through their tissues. So I got have some fun discussions with her on the subject.
It amazes me that trees are more than 90% dead material and the only living part of the tree other than the leaves is a just handful of layers of cells between the heartwood and the bark. It's crazy.
wa:do
dust1n
Zindīq
Yeah, I should have studied plants more than I did.... but I had to cut my last year of university short due to my budget, so I never got to take botany.
One of the professors I worked under was our schools botanist. She specialized in trees and how they move nutrients through their tissues. So I got have some fun discussions with her on the subject.
It amazes me that trees are more than 90% dead material and the only living part of the tree other than the leaves is a just handful of layers of cells between the heartwood and the bark. It's crazy.
wa:do
Oh that's a shame, but when you continue on, I would definitely take on if you have the chance (or have to anyways). I always enjoyed science classes, they always seem so intuitive, but then again my dad is biologist, so that might have something to do with it. (I hate lab work though).
Really though, plants are taken for granted. They do all kinds of crazy things to survive. Some engage in warfare with other plants and produce specific herbicides. Some growth tumors in reaction to fungal infections. Some are so intertwined with underground mold, that they can't fix carbon or absord nutrients without them (makes me think of the human micro-biome). Virtually all of them have a two-being reproduction stages, where the species has to be a gametophyte to produce eggs and sperm, which create a sporophyte, which (in a lot of cases) releases female spores and male spores, which in turn create a gametophyte...
And let's face it, photosynthesis has to be one of the most amazing things in the world.
fantôme profane;2968312 said:
The creative days have been discussed at length elsewhere in this forum. The Bible certainly presents a clear description of Creation; The sun, moon, and stars were created long prior to Earth's preparation for mankind, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) Genesis chapters one and two assign several meanings to the word "day": (Interestingly, a 24-hour period is not one of these meanings
- The time the light occurs, as opposed to darkness (1:4,5)
- An evening and morning (describing a creative epoch, as in 1:5)
- A time period marking an event (2:4)