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Creationists, please provide evidence

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
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I can assure you that my link "In Search of Deep Time-Beyond the Fossil Record to a New History of Life, by Henry Gee. 1999, . p.116 et 117" does in fact state what I quoted.

And Henry Gee is believes in God btw.

Yes, he does, and he doesn't believe in your silly creation story, and he doesn't appreciate having his words twisted to make it look like he does. He was so mad that he wrote this passage to refute that particular quote-mine:

That it is impossible to trace direct lineages of ancestry and descent from the fossil record should be self-evident. Ancestors must exist, of course -- but we can never attribute ancestry to any particular fossil we might find. Just try this thought experiment -- let's say you find a fossil of a hominid, an ancient member of the human family. You can recognize various attributes that suggest kinship to humanity, but you would never know whether this particular fossil represented your lineal ancestor - even if that were actually the case. The reason is that fossils are never buried with their birth certificates. Again, this is a logical constraint that must apply even if evolution were true -- which is not in doubt, because if we didn't have ancestors, then we wouldn't be here. Neither does this mean that fossils exhibiting transitional structures do not exist, nor that it is impossible to reconstruct what happened in evolution. [...]In addition, the use by creationists of selective, unauthorized quotations, possibly with intent to mislead the public undermines their position as self-appointed guardians of public values and morals.

Quote-mining is a type of lie. People who do it are called liars. Are you a liar? If not, then stop quote-mining. It would be as if I took your quote: "The writer of genesis was not a scientist," and used it to show that you oppose creationism. Not very nice, is it? Stop doing it, if you value your credibility or care at all about honesty.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
abiogenesis = God.... Neither can be tested right?
Wrong.

Poofing would have to do with abiogenesis.
Isn't poofing your hypothesis? Yes, it would be a type of abiogenesis.
I thought that wasn't a part of evolution.
that's right.
If you want to talk about poofing (abiogenesis} start a thread.
This thread is for you hypothesis as to how we get species. If your hypothesis is by poofing, then this is the thread for it.
 

The_Evelyonian

Old-School Member
Quote-mining is a type of lie. People who do it are called liars. Are you a liar? If not, then stop quote-mining. It would be as if I took your quote: "The writer of genesis was not a scientist," and used it to show that you oppose creationism. Not very nice, is it? Stop doing it, if you value your credibility or care at all about honesty.

Pegg, in case you're still unclear on what 'quote-mining' is, here are some examples.

The writer of genesis was not a scientist or a biologist just as modern day believers are not.

leave God out of this...

I cannot even begin to imagine how God exists

...a creator is not needed for life and the universe to exist

right,

so we cannot say that God does exist...

I will readily accept...a gradual accumulation of change leading to 'new creatures'.

See Pegg? Not only are you an evolutionist, you're also an atheist.
 
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newhope101

Active Member
I stand corrected. However, I am a creationist and I do not believe in magic poofing.

Exactly Danmac. "poofing" is just another way of saying there is a science involved that we do not understand. This is acceptable in science. It can be applied to creationism as well as evolution. For example the first living cell just poofed into existence and learned to multiply itself, the singularity just poofed into existence and started the universe, the resulting 6 or more dimentions just poofed into existence to explain the singularity, current physics just poofed into reality and allowed planets and stars to form, dark matter poofed into existence to keep all the galaxies from splitting apart, etc.

Maybe God grew Adam in a huge petrie dish in one of these hypothesised dimentions then brought him back into this dimention, gave Adam a good thump on the chest and away he went. While Adam was naming all the animals God saw that he was lonely. It was too much effort to teach the chimps to speak. Therefore, God went away to this other dimention and created Eve in a large Petre dish bought her back to this dimention fully formed, gave her a thump and away she went.

When we evoke hypotheticals, anything is possible in both the evolutionary and creationist world.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Exactly Danmac. "poofing" is just another way of saying there is a science involved that we do not understand.
No, in reality, there is science involved, and we understand it quite well. That's the ToE. You are asserting something else, I think, although you still haven't said. Aren't you asserting that God, using his miraculous power, incomprehensible to us, spoke the creatures into existence?
This is acceptable in science. It can be applied to creationism as well as evolution. For example the first living cell just poofed into existence and learned to multiply itself,
I'm sorry, can you provide a scientific cite for this supposedly scientific position?
the singularity just poofed into existence and started the universe,
Or this one?
the resulting 6 or more dimentions just poofed into existence to explain the singularity,
or this one?
current physics just poofed into reality and allowed planets and stars to form, dark matter poofed into existence to keep all the galaxies from splitting apart, etc.
I don't think you have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

Maybe God grew Adam in a huge petrie dish in one of these hypothesised dimentions then brought him back into this dimention, gave Adam a good thump on the chest and away he went. While Adam was naming all the animals God saw that he was lonely. It was too much effort to teach the chimps to speak. Therefore, God went away to this other dimention and created Eve in a large Petre dish bought her back to this dimention fully formed, gave her a thump and away she went.
Interesting hypothesis. Is this your hypothesis? Did God do all this in one day?

When we evoke hypotheticals, anything is possible in both the evolutionary and creationist world.
by "evolutionary world" you mean reality?
 

Danmac

Well-Known Member
I'm confused. Are you saying that if two organisms are reproductively isolated they are separate kinds? Are you claiming that an organism cannot be reproductively isolated from its descendants?

I do believe there can be species within a kind that can become reproductively isolated from the parent kind due to a loss of information.
 

Noaidi

slow walker
Okay, now that you guys have presented your evidence, would any of you care to visit the 'Creation in the classroom' thread and tell us how we should be teaching this stuff within the context of science lessons?

Obviously your evidence will be based upon considerable published research and will have withstood the rigours of academic peer review and, as such, is now ready to hold its own against ToE.

Time to get it out there. Give us the material to do it justice.
 
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