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Creationists, please provide evidence

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Here's what there wasn't: the land animals you claim were magically poofed into existence fully formed, the ur-cats and ur-horses and ur-kangaroos. If they evolved from these Cambrian life-forms, your hypothesis is disproved. If they didn't, why are you talking about them?

Fascinating. What's your point?

I've never stated that the land animals evolved from the cambrian.

Genesis does not say that all living things were created in the blink of an eye. The first creations were the plants on day 3, then the sea creatures followed by the flying creatures on day 5, then finally land animals on day 6.

its really not that difficult to comprehend.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Well the statement that you can't determine actual ancestry from fossils is true and obvious, so why bring it up? What does it have to do with your hypothesis?

Of course its true and obvious...Gee thinks so, most evolutionists would agree, you agree...
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
were evolution true, then those cambrian creatures should have ancestors because according to ToE ALL living things had ancestors
You are using the Cambrian explosion as support, and thus are implicitly assuming the Earth to be 530 million years old at minimum. This is not compatible with Genesis.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
What is your explanation for: DNA/RNA to proteins via ribosomes? Why is this the same in every organism on earth?

its the same for all organisms on earth because its the mechanism God created to give life to physical creatures.

Piano's are all the same around the world, but the songs that can be played on a piano are too numerous to mention. The piano is a design that allows many songs to be played, just as DNA is structured in such a way to allow many forms of life to exist.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
You are using the Cambrian explosion as support, and thus are implicitly assuming the Earth to be 530 million years old at minimum. This is not compatible with Genesis.

of course it is

Genesis puts no date on the age of the earth. And before you mention the word 'day', please go to a hebrew dictionary and find out what the word Yom means.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Means "day", as far as I can tell. And why would they specifically mention one of many mornings and evenings if it was longer?

Also, the Bible as a whole does give an age of the Earth, unless Jesus' ancestors lived for hundreds of thousands of years at a stretch.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Pegg, I hope you realize that this is crap. While it is true that a day (YOM) can signify any period of time, you should also know that the context in which it is used will determine how long is that period of time. Genesis specifically speak about "the morning" and "the evening" in regards to the day (eg "nd there was evening, and there was morning—the first day - Genesis 1 v3)" It would take someone without a brain to think that this could mean next month or next week or next million years.

the funny thing is that if the english translators never used the word 'day' in Genesis, then no one would ever be having this discussion.

Genesis 2:4 calls all of the 6 creative periods a 'day'... so what do we make of that? Obviously its the bible which is wrong, we can never be wrong about anything, right? :facepalm:
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Means "day", as far as I can tell. And why would they specifically mention one of many mornings and evenings if it was longer?

Also, the Bible as a whole does give an age of the Earth, unless Jesus' ancestors lived for hundreds of thousands of years at a stretch.

no, the bible gives us the age of humans from Adam on through the family chronologies...it says nothing about the age of earth which is why there is no need for anyone to take issue with scientists calculation of the age of the planet. The six creative 'days' of genesis do not have to dowith the creation of earth’s matter or material, but with the preparing of it for habitation.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Too bad you do not understand how silly recent research makes Toe look...then again I don't believe in 'little people' or 'raven mockers'. Do you enjoy being mocked? Neither do creationists.
I'm not mocking... I'm pointing out a critical problem with your stance. If god is all powerful, honest and wants us to believe in the Bible... then you have completely undercut that God by saying that humans are more creative and the only reason we all have DNA is God is too simple to have used anything else.

Essentially the creationist point is that God is too limited to use any method that they don't understand personally and can only work through the mythology of their chosen adopted culture. You have a God that is powerful enough to "speak" the world into existence but not powerful enough to have made a molecule like PNA or a self sustaining system like evolution.

Research may make scientists look silly to you, but we have ample evidence that you neither understand nor care about that research. It may look silly to alter a fly's HOX genes to produce legs rather than antenna, but that research helped us understand the why and how behind human birth defects as well as how to prevent them.
Again, I'm sorry you find such things "silly" and for "loosers".

And no... I don't believe in "little people" or "Raven Mockers" per say... I know the difference between cultural psychology/expression and literal truth. Nice try though. :cool:

wa:do
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
the cambrian explosian is in harmony with the genesis account because genesis describes the creation of sea creatures according to their kinds and the cambrian explosion shows a huge variety of sea creatures who had no previous ancestors

were evolution true, then those cambrian creatures should have ancestors because according to ToE ALL living things had ancestors
The cambrian sea creatures were the first of Gods living creations...just as Genesis says.
They do have ancestors... the Ediacarian biota is much older than the Cambrian biota. I'm sorry Pegg but the Cambrian hasn't had the oldest living things for nearly a half century now.

Indeed we've found fossil bacteria billions of years older.

wa:do
 

RedOne77

Active Member
of course it is

Genesis puts no date on the age of the earth. And before you mention the word 'day', please go to a hebrew dictionary and find out what the word Yom means.

A literal Genesis does put a date on it, 4004 BC, supposedly October. If you take a non-literal stance on Genesis, than yes you can harmonize Judeo-Christian theology with the scientific age, however this also means you can harmonize evolution into it too.

Yom can mean an undetermined period of time. However, yom can also means a single day (Yom Kippur; Day of Atonement), which is clearly expressed in Genesis with each passing day of creation it talks about a single sunrise and a single sunset. The idea that the Genesis day is anything more than a day really only got started in the past few hundred years, mainly because of advancing scientific knowledge; the world was no longer a few thousand years old.

And of course, if you really want to get into the idea that each day is a few million years, I'd love for you to explain the scientific discrepancies. Like fruiting trees being around millions of years without any land animals or birds being around to spread the seeds, only other plants. Or these plants (fruiting trees) being around an entire two periods of millions of years before life in the water came about, love to see you harmonize that with the fossil record.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Or, even better, liquid water existing several million years before the Sun was created. No sun -> no heat -> ambient temperature drops to around 4K -> no liquids or gases.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Autodidact is another where one must check every comment for deceiptful information. Ribosomes appear to NOT be all the same as alledged. You are a liar. Indeed humans supposedly evolved from bacteria yet the ribosomes SIGNIFICANTLY differ in the 3 domains of life. Looser!
Wiki: Ribosomes from bacteria, archaea and eukaryotes (the three domains of life on Earth), have significantly different structures and RNA sequences. These differences in structure allow some antibiotics to kill bacteria by inhibiting their ribosomes, while leaving human ribosomes unaffected. The ribosomes in the mitochondria of eukaryotic cells resemble those in bacteria, reflecting the likely evolutionary origin of this organelle.[1] The word ribosome comes from ribonucleic acid and the Greek: soma (meaning body).Archaeal, eubacterial and eukaryotic ribosomes differ in their size, composition and the ratio of protein to RNA. Their active sites are made of RNA, so ribosomes are now classified as "ribozymes".[2].

Would you please quote my statement that you believe to be a lie? Thank you.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
the cambrian explosian is in harmony with the genesis account because genesis describes the creation of sea creatures according to their kinds and the cambrian explosion shows a huge variety of sea creatures who had no previous ancestors
The Cambrian explosion has nothing to with anything poofing into existence without previous ancestors.

were evolution true, then those cambrian creatures should have ancestors because according to ToE ALL living things had ancestors
They did.
The cambrian sea creatures were the first of Gods living creations...just as Genesis says.
Either it happened or it didn't. If it did, your entire hypothesis is wrong.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
its the same for all organisms on earth because its the mechanism God created to give life to physical creatures.

Piano's are all the same around the world, but the songs that can be played on a piano are too numerous to mention. The piano is a design that allows many songs to be played, just as DNA is structured in such a way to allow many forms of life to exist.

Ack, I'm tired. I don't know whether I can say this again: HOW. HOW. HOW. NOT WHO, HOW. I beg you to try to remember this. I think I've said it 100 times in this thread alone.

Yes, DNA/RNA is the mechanism God chose to design every creature on earth--via Evolution.
 

newhope101

Active Member
Ack, I'm tired. I don't know whether I can say this again: HOW. HOW. HOW. NOT WHO, HOW. I beg you to try to remember this. I think I've said it 100 times in this thread alone.

Yes, DNA/RNA is the mechanism God chose to design every creature on earth--via Evolution.

So you call those that provide incorrect information liars. It appears your information is incorrect. RNA/DNA is NOT the only mechanism, epigenetic heritability is another mechanism.

Pegg being a Christian will likely accept your apology!

ACHHH!!!..we're tired of evos with out of date information, Auto, please, please get rid of that old biology book.

ScienceNewsDen.
Heritability May Not Be Limited To DNA
Scientists at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) have detected evidence that DNA may not be the only carrier of heritable information; a secondary molecular mechanism called epigenetics may also account for some inherited traits and diseases.​

These findings challenge the fundamental principles of genetics and inheritance, and potentially provide a new insight into the primary causes of human diseases.
Your mother's eyes, your father's height, your predisposition to disease - these are traits inherited from your parents.

Traditionally, 'heritability' is estimated by comparing monozygotic (genetically identical) twins to dizygotic (genetically different) twins. A trait or disease is called heritable if monozygotic twins are more similar to each other than dizygotic twins. In molecular terms, heritability has traditionally been attributed to variations in the DNA sequence.

CAMH's Dr. Art Petronis, head of the Krembil Family Epigenetics Laboratory, and his team conducted a comprehensive epigenetic analysis of 100 sets of monozygotic and dizygotic twins in the first study of its kind. Said Dr. Petronis, "We investigated molecules that attach to DNA and regulate various gene activities. These DNA modifications are called epigenetic factors."

The CAMH study showed that epigenetic factors – acting independently from DNA – were more similar in monozygotic twins than dizygotic twins. This finding suggests that there is a secondary molecular mechanism of heredity.

The epigenetic heritability may help explain currently unclear issues in human disease, such as the presence of a disease in only one monozygotic twin, the different susceptibility of males (e.g. to autism) and females (e.g. to lupus), significant fluctuations in the course of a disease (e.g. bipolar disorder, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis), among numerous others.

"Traditionally, it has been assumed that only the DNA sequence can account for the capability of normal traits and diseases to be inherited," says Dr. Petronis.
"Over the last several decades, there has been an enormous effort to identify specific DNA sequence changes predisposing people to psychiatric, neurodegenerative, malignant, metabolic, and autoimmune diseases, but with only moderate success. Our findings represent a new way to look for the molecular cause of disease, and eventually may lead to improved diagnostics and treatment."

"Dr. Art Petronis, head of the Krembil Family Epigenetics Laboratory at the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, has revealed new evidence that DNA may not be the only carrier of heritable information; a secondary molecular mechanism called epigenetics may also account for some inherited traits and diseases. These findings challenge the fundamental principles of genetics and inheritance, and potentially provide a new insight into the primary......"
 
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