Creationists, please provide evidence

[tumbleweed41]

So.....
Anyone got any objective and empirical evidence that naturally leads to the conclusion of Creationism?

 

[kylixguru]

thats because you dont know the first thing about the subject at hand.

they didnt write it on rock either or we would still have those copies.

if you knew anything of history you would know how genesis came to be. it was stolen from many different pagan cultures. moses has never wrote a word.

the 10 commandments are straight from egypt, just like moses himself, noahs story is from the sumerian culture as well as adams creation story

is this because you cant handle the truth???

how do you know this??

the bible was never originaly wrote as a history book ever for anyone. It was a collection of fables twisted to meet the hebrews ancient needs and held on to tight during dark times and gave comfort to the old, dieing, and termilly sick.

so if you dont look at the bible for history, imagine that. You look at history instead to learn what really happened back then and you look at science to explain the rest.

this thread is about evidence for creation and the bible isnt it

My past remarks sufficiently address your continued efforts to repeat points you have already made. I have not detected any new points in your remarks. If you did make a new point that I missed, please draw my attention to it. I don't consider your insinuation that I cannot handle the truth a point. It is merely that, an insinuation.

I am very comfortable in the understanding I have received from the First Book of Moses called Genesis.

Thank you for your efforts.

Have a nice day!

 

[McBell]

So.....
Anyone got any objective and empirical evidence that naturally leads to the conclusion of Creationism?

Hell, I would settle for some evidence, not rationalizations, that even vaguely imply creation.

 

[kylixguru]

Which is.....what?

I already said I declined to go into that. It's irrelevant to the intent of the OP and it's something I generally keep to myself by choice. Surely that is my right.

My purpose in participating in this thread was to support the OP in terms of what orthodox religions purport the account of creation pertains to. I agree their interpretation of what they think addresses the creation of the cosmos is flawed and impossible to substantiate. The sooner they come to accept this the sooner some few of them, if they have any sincerity, will wish to understand what it is really about and get some inspiration on the matter for themselves. So, I applaud the OP and wish them well in their continued efforts.

Have a nice day!

 

[outhouse]

the First Book of Moses called Genesis

moses didnt write genesis

this thread is about evidence for creation and the bible isnt it

 

[outhouse]

I already said I declined to go into that. It's irrelevant to the intent of the OP and it's something I generally keep to myself by choice. Surely that is my right.

My purpose in participating in this thread was to support the OP in terms of what orthodox religions purport the account of creation pertains to. I agree their interpretation of what they think addresses the creation of the cosmos is flawed and impossible to substantiate. The sooner they come to accept this the sooner some few of them, if they have any sincerity, will wish to understand what it is really about and get some inspiration on the matter for themselves. So, I applaud the OP and wish them well in their continued efforts.

Have a nice day!

this is what the OP stated

You like to attack evolution but I have never heard positive evidence for your beliefs please provide some

you so far have yet to address the OP's statement

now, do you have any positive evidence or not????

 

[kylixguru]

this is what the OP stated

you so far have yet to address the OP's statement

now, do you have any positive evidence or not????

Can't I agree with the OP in its intended context and at the same time have my own unique understanding of Genesis that is irrelevant to the OP? I say I can.

Have a nice day!

 

[kylixguru]

I should also add, I do not attack the truths in evolutionary research. I do take issue with some assumptions that some people make based on these truths but I think I take issue with assumptions religious people make far more frequently than the other.

 

[Dan4reason]

I should also add, I do not attack the truths in evolutionary research. I do take issue with some assumptions that some people make based on these truths but I think I take issue with assumptions religious people make far more frequently than the other.

If I understand correctly, the book of Moses and the book or Abraham go to some length to provide some details about the creation of the universe and the garden of Eden. It seems to me that Mormons are forces to interpret Genesis pretty litterally.

 

[kylixguru]

If I understand correctly, the book of Moses and the book or Abraham go to some length to provide some details about the creation of the universe and the garden of Eden. It seems to me that Mormons are forces to interpret Genesis pretty litterally.

I have not as yet made a careful examination of the creation account in the LDS Book of Abraham. I did look at it some time back and it didn't seem to diverge from how I read the KJV Creation account. The same metaphoric context works with it. In fact, I think I recall some aspects were even closer to how I view it. Also, I should add, it isn't the universe in a cosmic sense that is being spoken of. That is the metaphoric symbol set, not the literal reality.

 

[Dan4reason]

I have not as yet made a careful examination of the creation account in the LDS Book of Abraham. I did look at it some time back and it didn't seem to diverge from how I read the KJV Creation account. The same metaphoric context works with it. In fact, I think I recall some aspects were even closer to how I view it. Also, I should add, it isn't the universe in a cosmic sense that is being spoken of. That is the metaphoric symbol set, not the literal reality.

The book of Moses talks about Moses' communication with God and in this the creation of the earth was revealed to him by God directly. Moses then wrote this down and this is the origin of the book of Genesis. Since the bible has some parts left out the creation account of the book of Moses goes more in depth than Genesis and shows how the creation of the earth was involved in the grand scheme of things.

The parts of the book of Moses that talk about the creation and the Garden of Eden are Moses chapters 2-4. As a sample, I will be posting Moses 2:1-12.

1 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I reveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the words which I speak. I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things; yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and I caused darkness to come up upon the face of the deep; and my Spirit moved upon the face of the water; for I am God.
3 And I, God, said: Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And I, God, saw the light; and that light was good. And I, God, divided the light from the darkness.
5 And I, God, called the light Day; and the darkness, I called Night; and this I did by the word of my power, and it was done as I spake; and the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And again, I, God, said: Let there be a firmament in the midst of the water, and it was so, even as I spake; and I said: Let it divide the waters from the waters; and it was done;
7 And I, God, made the firmament and divided the waters, yea, the great waters under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament, and it was so even as I spake.
8 And I, God, called the firmament Heaven; and the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And I, God, said: Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and it was so; and I, God, said: Let there be dry land; and it was so.
10 And I, God, called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, called I the Sea; and I, God, saw that all things which I had made were good.
11 And I, God, said: Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, the fruit tree yielding fruit, after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed should be in itself upon the earth, and it was so even as I spake.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, every herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed should be in itself, after his kind; and I, God, saw that all things which I had made were good;

 

[kylixguru]

The book of Moses talks about Moses' communication with God and in this the creation of the earth was revealed to him by God directly. Moses then wrote this down and this is the origin of the book of Genesis. Since the bible has some parts left out the creation account of the book of Moses goes more in depth than Genesis and shows how the creation of the earth was involved in the grand scheme of things.

The parts of the book of Moses that talk about the creation and the Garden of Eden are Moses chapters 2-4. As a sample, I will be posting Moses 2:1-12.

1 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I reveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the words which I speak. I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things; yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and I caused darkness to come up upon the face of the deep; and my Spirit moved upon the face of the water; for I am God.
3 And I, God, said: Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And I, God, saw the light; and that light was good. And I, God, divided the light from the darkness.
5 And I, God, called the light Day; and the darkness, I called Night; and this I did by the word of my power, and it was done as I spake; and the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And again, I, God, said: Let there be a firmament in the midst of the water, and it was so, even as I spake; and I said: Let it divide the waters from the waters; and it was done;
7 And I, God, made the firmament and divided the waters, yea, the great waters under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament, and it was so even as I spake.
8 And I, God, called the firmament Heaven; and the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And I, God, said: Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and it was so; and I, God, said: Let there be dry land; and it was so.
10 And I, God, called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, called I the Sea; and I, God, saw that all things which I had made were good.
11 And I, God, said: Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, the fruit tree yielding fruit, after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed should be in itself upon the earth, and it was so even as I spake.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, every herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed should be in itself, after his kind; and I, God, saw that all things which I had made were good;

Thank you for sharing this. This creation account is perfectly compatible with the other creation accounts in the way I read them.

Incidently, I have also studied the LDS endowment ceremony and its format is equally compatible with these other creation accounts. It's fundamental differences with the Bible's creation account can be easily reconciled because it was intended to be the creation account for the new Creation to come. The Bible's creation account pertains to the Creation that is now playing out. If they pertain to different Creations then there is no concern if they contain fundamental differences between them.

Too bad I don't know any Mormons who seem to understand what their own endowment was doing. Of course they won't openly talk about the endowment itself, but if they understood it their understanding of things would be much different than I observe. Of course, I can't blame them entirely since it has been altered and tampered with in such a way that if they knew what they were being given now they wouldn't go anymore. I'm sure the Luciferians who do know and who are laughing in the faces of the ignorant there being taken for a spoil have no problem attending though.

God does (allows) such "strange acts"...

Have a nice day!

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Evidence supports creation, theories support Toe.

Evidence is needed for a theory to be valid. Your ToC, as you say, is supported by evidence. In order for your ToC to replace ToE, you must explain everything that ToE does and why the ToE's explanation is wrong. You can't just pick out a few exceptions or anamolies (which, to me, seems like what you are doing) and say that ToE is unsupported by evidence. It doesn't explain an anomaly, yes, but that doesn't make the theory invalid. Just incomplete.

 

[Dan4reason]

Thank you for sharing this. This creation account is perfectly compatible with the other creation accounts in the way I read them.

Incidently, I have also studied the LDS endowment ceremony and its format is equally compatible with these other creation accounts. It's fundamental differences with the Bible's creation account can be easily reconciled because it was intended to be the creation account for the new Creation to come. The Bible's creation account pertains to the Creation that is now playing out. If they pertain to different Creations then there is no concern if they contain fundamental differences between them.

Too bad I don't know any Mormons who seem to understand what their own endowment was doing. Of course they won't openly talk about the endowment itself, but if they understood it their understanding of things would be much different than I observe. Of course, I can't blame them entirely since it has been altered and tampered with in such a way that if they knew what they were being given now they wouldn't go anymore. I'm sure the Luciferians who do know and who are laughing in the faces of the ignorant there being taken for a spoil have no problem attending though.

God does (allows) such "strange acts"...

Have a nice day!

You do not understand the context of the book of Moses. This book was an account of the creation to Moses as given by the headers of the chapters. The story also goes into the story of Adam and Eve. It is unlikely that in the next creation that the same Adam and Eve thing will be perfectly reenacted. When God gave this revelation to Moses like when he did to Nephi, Joseph Smith, or Lehi, he is telling people of real events unless he makes it clear that he is being symbolic.

I am not a Mormon, but if I were in your shoes, then I would accept the obvious answer that that God is revealing the creation of the universe and the story of Adam and Eve to Moses. The account in Moses mirrors the account in Genesis almost perfectly. He also reveals many other things which are not in Genesis.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Evidence is needed for a theory to be valid. Your ToC, as you say, is supported by evidence. In order for your ToC to replace ToE, you must explain everything that ToE does and why the ToE's explanation is wrong. You can't just pick out a few exceptions or anamolies (which, to me, seems like what you are doing) and say that ToE is unsupported by evidence. It doesn't explain an anomaly, yes, but that doesn't make the theory invalid. Just incomplete.

That's not going to be hard for him all he has to say is "goddidit"

 

[strikeviperMKII]

That's not going to be hard for him all he has to say is "goddidit"

I thought the question was HOW. Not who, but HOW. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that people have said that before...:sarcastic

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I thought the question was HOW. Not who, but HOW. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that people have said that before...:sarcastic

Ohh that's easy.

The ToMP - Theory of Magical Poofing.

They've got it all wrapped up in a nice little intellectually lazy package.

 

[kylixguru]

You do not understand the context of the book of Moses. This book was an account of the creation to Moses as given by the headers of the chapters. The story also goes into the story of Adam and Eve. It is unlikely that in the next creation that the same Adam and Eve thing will be perfectly reenacted. When God gave this revelation to Moses like when he did to Nephi, Joseph Smith, or Lehi, he is telling people of real events unless he makes it clear that he is being symbolic.

The book does make it clear that he is being symbolic. As soon as he finishes describing the 7 periods of the creation he tells you exactly what they symbolize. It's a little bit obscure, but not really. See Moses 3:4.

I can assure you, this is NOT an account of a cosmic creation.
There is some loose resemblence due to the metaphors only.

I am not a Mormon, but if I were in your shoes, then I would accept the obvious answer that that God is revealing the creation of the universe and the story of Adam and Eve to Moses. The account in Moses mirrors the account in Genesis almost perfectly. He also reveals many other things which are not in Genesis.

What seems obvious to you is utterly absurd to me.

Have you ever taken what you think this "obviously" says and really put it to the test?
Are you preared to provide the requested evidence of the OP to support what you see as being obvious?

 

[Autodidact]

Ohh that's easy.

The ToMP - Theory of Magical Poofing.

They've got it all wrapped up in a nice little intellectually lazy package.

Actually that's HoMP. Hypothesis of Magical Poofing. To graduate to a theory, it would need to be supported by actual evidence.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Actually that's HoMP. Hypothesis of Magical Poofing. To graduate to a theory, it would need to be supported by actual evidence.

Too funny. I think I said that here in this thread or somewhere recently but every time I read it, it makes me chuckle....:biglaugh: