Creationists, please provide evidence

[fantome profane]

Presumably, since if you did that, you couldn't run away.
(The spelling you are looking for is "waste." )

...

 

[Sweetvoice]

BUT LOOK AT THE TREES! How can you look at the trees and say there's no god?

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no GOD".

-----------------------

That's all the "Evidence" I have ever heard for creationism and I wager that it will be much the same in this thread.

Who created that fool. Surely you can say god created fools.

 

[McBell]

You like to attack evolution but I have never heard positive evidence for your beliefs please provide some.

Seems to me you should have included in your OP a link to logical fallacies.
Not that it would have helped any.

 

[rusra02]

Beyond the ridiculous flood logic (do some reading on plate tectonics for information on how mountains really formed) there are a couple areas where reading the bible literally fails.


Examples:

• It self-contradicts on the number of people in the world at creation. It initially claims only two and their descendents, but then one of them remarks about the existence of other people in the world
• It posits the existence of giants, but people can't get much larger than they are without serious health risks. And if people were to get significantly larger their bones wouldn't be able to support their weight. Square-cube law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• The Battle of Jericho never happened.
• And, the Exodus probably never happened.

Now, I don't say this because I want to disprove your religion. I don't. I got nothing against Christianity itself. I say this because I need you to understand that you can't simply say "My book is always right and doesn't mention evolution therefore there is no evolution", especially when your book is not always right.

I appreciate your comments. Each person should make an examination of the evidence for themselves. Obviously I am convinced the Bible is inspired by God, and believe the evidence supports that. I was asked to provide evidence, and believe the evidence is abundant. Time and again, evidence has shown the Bible's historical accuracy is remarkable. People, places, and events mentioned in the Bible have been confirmed as historical. There is no reason to doubt it's historicity.

 

[rusra02]

That didn't answer my question, though.
I asked why your god doesn't give advice on curing currently incurable diseases. People are dying, so all it would take is for your god to tell medical researchers the appropriate steps needed to rid the world of disease right now.
If he gave advice 3000-odd years ago, why not now?

The Bible promises an end to sickness, suffering, and death. (Revelation 21:1-4) Jesus Christ demonstrated both God's ability and desire to relieve human suffering. However, this will come in God's due time, not when we wish it. We should be happy God is allowing the relatively short time we have, since it offers us time to come to know him, and line up our lives with his grand purposes. (2 Peter 3:9)
Bible counsel, if followed, can immeasurably improve the quality of our lives. For example, God's law to abstain from blood and fornication helps true Christians to largely escape the scourge of AIDs and other STDs and blood-borne diseases. (Acts 15:28,29). This is but one example of many showing the Bible's beneficial influence in those who follow it.

 

[rusra02]

Right, because the only possible explanation for people burying their waste must be divine revelation.

This is jus selection bias, you just pick and choose the few examples where they got something kind of right and ignore the examples where they got things ridiculously wrong. Consider the biblical cure for snake bite. No description of how to produce anti-venom, no description of first aid techniques such as sucking the poison from the wound, no description of how to avoid snakes. Just look at an image of a snake and all is well. Should we employ this kind of treatment today? Does this snake-bite remedy pass the test of time?

And this is just one example. There are many places where the bible describes disease and infirmities as being caused by evil spirits and prescribes completely absurd cures.

The copper serpent Moses made was not a cure for snake bite. Rather, the faith needed to accept God's means of saving his people is what saved those people from the serpent's bite. Repentant Israelites who had spoken disrespectfully of God's provision to feed his people could receive miraculous healing by gazing at the copper serpent Moses erected at God's command. (Numbers 21:4-9) Jesus spoke of the copper serpent as similar to his ransom sacrifice, and it's beneficial effects to those exercising faith in it. (John 3:14,15)

 

[Autodidact]

I appreciate your comments. Each person should make an examination of the evidence for themselves. Obviously I am convinced the Bible is inspired by God, and believe the evidence supports that. I was asked to provide evidence, and believe the evidence is abundant. Time and again, evidence has shown the Bible's historical accuracy is remarkable. People, places, and events mentioned in the Bible have been confirmed as historical. There is no reason to doubt it's historicity.

Other than that it isn't. There was no slavery in Egypt, no conquest of Canaan, no flood, no tower, no Adam, no Eve. Other than that, not bad.

 

[Noaidi]

The Bible promises an end to sickness, suffering, and death. (Revelation 21:1-4) Jesus Christ demonstrated both God's ability and desire to relieve human suffering. However, this will come in God's due time, not when we wish it. We should be happy God is allowing the relatively short time we have, since it offers us time to come to know him, and line up our lives with his grand purposes. (2 Peter 3:9)

Going by the bible, it's been over 2000 years of sickness and disease as we wait for your god to come and magic it all away.
Sorry, that's not an adequate answer, rusra. God could eliminate disease NOW if he was bothered enough.
And please could you address my earlier point to you: it was your god that (apparently) initially created all the pathogens that cause the diseases he is (apparently) going to eliminate.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

God had the land line disconnected because of all the abusive calls from atheists.

What God did do was give his people law. Many laws reflected health and hygiene at a time when germs were unknown. Some examples are washing of hands before meals and after toileting, burying faeces, abstaining from sex during menstruation, bleeding meat before consumption, all proven to be health initiatives in todays world of modern science.

Now i know we've had this conversation before.

But im going to repeat my self.

There is NOTHING wrong with having sex during menstruation. There are actually some benefits.

-Q

 

[Autodidact]

The Bible promises an end to sickness, suffering, and death.

And it fails once again.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Going by the bible, it's been over 2000 years of sickness and disease as we wait for your god to come and magic it all away.
Sorry, that's not an adequate answer, rusra. God could eliminate disease NOW if he was bothered enough.
And please could you address my earlier point to you: it was your god that (apparently) initially created all the pathogens that cause the diseases he is (apparently) going to eliminate.

I think PZ Myers said it best when he said (and im paraphrasing because i cant find the proper quote):

"god is so powerful that he can ignore the arbitrary rule of godhood of actually making difference"

 

[Noaidi]

I think PZ Myers said it best when he said (and im paraphrasing because i cant find the proper quote):

"god is so powerful that he can ignore the arbitrary rule of godhood of actually making difference"

Ain't that the truth!

 

[rusra02]

Other than that it isn't. There was no slavery in Egypt, no conquest of Canaan, no flood, no tower, no Adam, no Eve. Other than that, not bad.

And you know that these events did not occur....how?

 

[rusra02]

Going by the bible, it's been over 2000 years of sickness and disease as we wait for your god to come and magic it all away.
Sorry, that's not an adequate answer, rusra. God could eliminate disease NOW if he was bothered enough.
And please could you address my earlier point to you: it was your god that (apparently) initially created all the pathogens that cause the diseases he is (apparently) going to eliminate.

The bateria, viruses, and other organisms God created serve beneficial purposes and would do no harm to a perfect human. Disease and death are the results of sin. Adam sinned and his once perfect body began to break down, so that he eventually died. (Romans 5:12) Some people are allergic to food and can die from ingesting it, but we don't call food a pathogen. As to your apparent impatience with God, I am reminded of Isaiah 29:16;
"Should the thing made say respecting his maker: "He did not make me." And does the very thing formed say respecting its former: "He showed no understanding."
God's patience is for helping all of us as 2 Peter 3:9 says: "he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. Yet, Jehovah's day will come."

 

[PolyHedral]

And you know that these events did not occur....how?

The evidence that they would produce does not exist.

 

[Noaidi]

The bateria, viruses, and other organisms God created serve beneficial purposes and would do no harm to a perfect human. Disease and death are the results of sin.

Medical citations, please? Otherwise, what you say is pure speculation.

 

[camanintx]

The bateria, viruses, and other organisms God created serve beneficial purposes and would do no harm to a perfect human.

If this isn't already posted on FSTDT.org, it should be.

 

[evolved yet?]

People who truly follow what the Bible teaches are peaceful. Those who kill others, claiming to represent the Bible, are liars AND murderers. 1 John 3:11,12 says
"This is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should have love for one another, not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous."
True Christians go to prison or even to their deaths rather than take up arms to murder their fellow man.

"No true scotsman" fallacy. I guess all vatican followers from the past were basically following false christians.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Going by the bible, it's been over 2000 years of sickness and disease as we wait for your god to come and magic it all away.
Sorry, that's not an adequate answer, rusra. God could eliminate disease NOW if he was bothered enough.
And please could you address my earlier point to you: it was your god that (apparently) initially created all the pathogens that cause the diseases he is (apparently) going to eliminate.

This explains it all......

[youtube]s6AdEDm2mLQ[/youtube]
YouTube - Atheist Comedy - Intelijunt Dezine

 

[Gunfingers]

And you know that these events did not occur....how?

This is a great example of the varying standard of proof creationists can demonstrate. For example, to Rusra02 the bible is proven to be wholly true simply by the fact that it mentions a few places that used to exist and gets a few basic concepts of hygiene right. That's basically all it took to prove beyond any possible doubt that the bible is 100% true.

Now, show him evolutionary theory and his standard of proof changes. Suddenly the archaeology that proved the bible true isn't good enough, because he didn't see the fossilized organisms change from one generation to another. Tell him how DNA mutations in humans arise from one generation to another and suddenly medicine is just theory.

It even applies to refutations to his proof of the bible. Where proof of the bible's literal proof needed only to confirm the existence of ancient Egyptian society proving that the egyptians did not enslave the entire hebrew population requires you to go back in time and see them. Looking at the archaeology isn't good enough anymore.