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Creationists: what prevents you from accepting ToE?

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
vanityofvanitys said:
However, there is only one God and one true faith. Islam and Christianity cannot both be correct, and therefore, something is amiss in God’s eyes if we think it does not matter what religion we follow.

I suppose this topic would be for another thread, but there is really no evidence to prove one religion over another.

There is so much hatred and intolerance and terrorism coming out of radical Islam that I believe that speaks to something wrong with the religion itself. I mean, the fringe is so large (the fringe being those willing to kill for Allah and hate anything that treads on their beliefs) that there must be something wrong with the core.

You must see the irony in that. During Islam's golden age, there was very little of this going on. Most Muslims were interested in philosophy, art, and science. At this same time, the Catholic church was propagating the Crusades. So, if one wanted to look at it historically, the same could be said of your religion. There are no religions free from such atrocities. Look at my religion, Buddhism. As peaceful and non-violent as it is, we have had our fair share of such things. No one is perfect, and certainly no one is a perfect example of the ideals of their particular religion.

I did not say that is why atheism is accepted by many of its adherents, I only said by being an atheist there is less accountability to any moral code so given by an assumed higher power. Yes or no?

There is no moral code given by a higher power for atheists, but most still adhere to a moral code nonetheless.

If an atheist is very moral as you say, then that person is moral and kind and giving because that is what they choose, and certainly not because they are an atheist. Those who believe in God and consequences are more likely to be that “nice person” even if they are not inherently that way. Because they are subject to judgment.

I think history and experience bears out that a religious person is no more likely or less likely to be morally superior than a non-religious person.

So the chances of a Christian being kind and humble and forgiving are greater than that of someone who has no regard for any God or eternal consequences.

See above. I don't find any truth to this at all, either from my own personal experience, or from what I've seen and heard.

I might add, I am not impressed with people in the West in general, be they Christians, “lazy Christians”, atheists, or unidentified. I think this nation and Europe are totally fooling themselves. I think most people view themselves as being very kind and very generous and surely to be judged as a good person.

And I think for every person who views themselves that way and its found to be actually true (by God), there are 10 more who will be shocked to find out they were wrong. The greatest sins (I am told and I believe) are not sins of commission, but sins of omission. IOW, the sin of indifference towards the needs of others and how we view or treat others.

This is something that I can agree with.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
First of all --- your avatar is disturbingly disgusting. Must not be any little kids around your house?
Not sure whose avatar you're talking about. Then again, guess that could apply to most of us.

2) I appreciate you taking the time to attempt to address many of my points. But this raises a second thought --- what is your objectives for your short years of existence? Is this what gives you satisfaction and pleasure? I am only curious, not trying to be too critical.
To leave this world slightly better for having existed in it is a pretty good objective in life, I suppose. Even if it's as simple as leaving behind a happy, healthy family.

3) For me personally, if I were one who thought once I die that's it, life is over ---- I would seriously go mad. I could not continue with that terrifying and morbid thought. I mean, just how important is life if it is so quickly obliterated and forgotten? (spare me the "good qualities you may pass on to your offspring, etc." because even that becomes moot and valueless over time)
You obviously have a very weak constituion. I find it fascinating that you think that the notion that life is finite is "terrifying" - and quite telling. Personally, I think your worldview - that life is meaningless and "moot" unless it's infinite - to be far more morbid, cynical and displaying a reckless disregard for sanity and reality. There's something interminably sick about people who sincerely believe that.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Then ask the others to quit provoking me. :)

I think they heard you. I can only control me and not the thoughts or actions of others.

"The path of ignorance is guided by fear."

Not sure what your signature quote is saying, but I do know this: "The beginning of wisdom is fear of God." (proverbs)

Proverbs is wrong. "The beginning of knowledge, wisdom and understanding is realizing religion, race, color and sexual orientation doesn't matter" (Dirty Penguin)

Since this thread is about "Evolution" and not philosophy I apologize for my digression.
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
First of all --- your avatar is disturbingly disgusting. Must not be any little kids around your house?

Whose avatar? Mine?

Saintofkillersbadassery.jpg
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
It wasn't clear who he was replying to, and I looked at everyone's avatar in the thread and couldn't determine who had the "disturbingly disgusting" avatar. I asked because it directly preceded my post.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
I thought it might be father Heathens or the other persons Spartan (300) avatar.

And the greeks of course gave us democracy. LOL
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
First of all --- your avatar is disturbingly disgusting. Must not be any little kids around your house?

2) I appreciate you taking the time to attempt to address many of my points. But this raises a second thought --- what is your objectives for your short years of existence? Is this what gives you satisfaction and pleasure? I am only curious, not trying to be too critical.

No, there are no children around my house nor do I find it particularly disturbing. I rather like the Spartans.

Life is what you make of it. Some people make it their life's mission to help others. Others try to perfect a skill. They may strive to become a great musician. Or they may want to become an admired politician who will change things for the better. They want to experience the love and kindness of others while, at the same time, giving others love and kindness. For me, my purpose in life is to strive to run for office and institute democratic reforms that will better my country. But it's also to raise a family, make friends, and enjoy life to its fullest.

Your objection to evolution should not rest on whether or not you find purpose in life.

3) For me personally, if I were one who thought once I die that's it, life is over ---- I would seriously go mad. I could not continue with that terrifying and morbid thought. I mean, just how important is life if it is so quickly obliterated and forgotten? (spare me the "good qualities you may pass on to your offspring, etc." because even that becomes moot and valueless over time)

Why? It's not terrifying and morbid at all. It's rather beautiful. Spacedust around the universe, over time, formed in such a way through chemistry, physics, biology, and geology, to eventually form me. And for my short time on Earth, I not only have the power to positively affect the lives of others and experience the world to its fullest, I get to learn how that spacedust eventually formed me, first by making a solar system that includes the Earth, then by possessing conditions suitable for making a self-replicating molecule, then through evolution, reaching such biodiversity and complexity that we are created. And not only that, we have the power, through science, to communicate with each other instantly over huge distances, build skyscrapers, cure diseases, and more. Then when it is our time, we return to the Earth. Our bodies decompose. Our nutrients are released to the soil to create new life. Life that others will enjoy for their short time and eventually recycle for more life. It makes you appreciate what you have on Earth, it makes you strive to learn what science has to say about how we got here, and fully and truly appreciate the fruits of the Earth.

5) The good news for you: there are some atheists in heaven, especially if they are super kind and charitable and humble and so on ---- IOW, very hard to find (even among the Christian ranks). The bad news --- most people in hell did not believe it existed. Those are the words of the Virgin Mary.

If you must be utterly terrified into being a good person, not a perfect person, but a good person, by your God, your God is not worth worshipping. Your God probably doesn't exist. Hell probably doesn't exist. And instead of spending your precious short life worrying about giving handjobs to God, you can spend that time loving your family, laughing with your friends, learning with your peers, sweating with your co-workers, and entertaining strangers.

I just wish you could see past the dogma and truly appreciate the beauty of evolution for what it is; that we are all in a state of constant, gradual change. That we are creatures who adapt to our environment. Your belief in God is your own choice. But at the very least, I plead with you, never to reject evidence because of the consequences it may have on your faith. If you are devoted to truth, it will transcend and shatter your preconceived notions that a God exists and that evolution is false.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
It wasn't clear who he was replying to, and I looked at everyone's avatar in the thread and couldn't determine who had the "disturbingly disgusting" avatar. I asked because it directly preceded my post.


Could have been mine..who knows at this point?

Personally I find my Curious George chimp rather cute....
 

mrdaniel777

New Member
Well, I think that the bible states that God has directly created both humans and animals within a week. So it leaves no place for ToE, I think.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Well, I think that the bible states that God has directly created both humans and animals within a week. So it leaves no place for ToE, I think.

Only if you hold the bible to be both literal and infallible. However, some book written by ancient goat herders holds no monopoly over god.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Well, I think that the bible states that God has directly created both humans and animals within a week. So it leaves no place for ToE, I think.


Do you even know what the ToE says because I find it amusing that those who are so against the facts of Evolution really haven't a clue what Evolution is. It's as if you tuned completely out in grade school. Let us know when you're ready for serious debate on the subject considering your 'holy book' isn't the only one on the planet with a creation myth.


P.S. Welcome to RF..
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Well, I think that the bible states that God has directly created both humans and animals within a week. So it leaves no place for ToE, I think.
The Bible also states that one can influence the coloration of your goats with striped stick during mating, does that leave no place for genetics?
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
father heathen said:
Only if you hold the bible to be both literal and infallible. However, some book written by ancient goat herders holds no monopoly over god.

father heathen said:
It's those who blindly and unquestioningly adhere to rigid, arbitrary, irrational and unsubstantiated things out of fear of eternal damnation who are the ones guided by fear on a path of ignorance.

Who are talking about...these goat-herders?

If you talking about the ancient Israelites?

Or the Christians?

Because the Israelites (nor the Jews, today) don't believe in eternal damnation. Hell is a foreign and Christian concept, not really a Judaic one. Even in the Book of Enoch (the Second Book), where it has fallen angels being punished, the punishment was in (one of the levels of) heaven, not in hell.

In Judaism, as can be seen in the narrative of the Hebrew scriptures (or the Christian OT Bible), God either reward you or punish you, while you're alive. So once you are dead, you cease to exist; the only thing that are left behind, is just an empty shell of bones and rotting flesh. The only way for anyone to continue to exist, is through your children and descendants (that you have children or descendants), because a part of you, biologically make up the children.
 
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