Crimes by Priests

[Dark_Waltz]

If those priests were allowed to marry, they would still be pedophiles. The issues are separate.

I doubt it,

 

[Pah]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312071116/002-9443142-6429618?v=glance&n=283155&st=%2A&v=glance
A list of books that can be term evidence. http://print.google.com/print?q=pac...&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&sa=N&tab=wp

While "cover-up" might not be properly used to describe Vatican behavior, appeasment to murder is.

 

[Quiddity]

It is the blind following of possibly corrupted leaders that is dangerous to faith.

Wow, it's almost like you ignored what I said. Oh well.....
I think you might be right ND.


~Victor

 

[John Eastern]

Everybody sins, otherwise who would need the church?

 

[macha]

The worse thing about it is that it was hidden for so long by those in power. Its a shame, they more afraid of scandel than the lives of their congregation.

Anita

 

[michel]

Why does the Catholic Church provide protection to Priests that have committed acts of murder,and sexual violations to children? I worked 23 years with the criminally insane and have seen and heard about anything you all could imagine. So I do know what goes on in the Catholic Church. I have heard many confessions......and the Church excuses them.

Why do hospitals sometimes employ Doctors who kill their patients ? or policemen who get a kick out of beating the life out of innocents ? - every barrel has bad apples in it; why pick on the Church?

 

[Pah]

Wow, it's almost like you ignored what I said. Oh well.....
I think you might be right ND.


~Victor

First we have one that demands comment on all of a preceeding post and now we have one that doesn't undersatnd expansion :tsk:

 

[Quiddity]

First we have one that demands comment on all of a preceeding post and now we have one that doesn't undersatnd expansion :tsk:

Expansion?

~Victor

 

[Scuba Pete]

Seeing as you apparently did no research at all for your posts I would venture a guess to say that you had a very misinformed view of what was going on in the church and by no means were you ingormed enough to answer on either accusation made by the OP.

I did not make the contention that the Catholic church was trying to cover up anything, ergo it is not my responsibility to prove that it happened (or did not happen). Go ahead: find "proof" that you did not beat your spouse. It can only be proven by a LACK of evidence. But again, feel free to believe the National Enquirer and ALL of the conspiracy theorists about how bad the Catholic church was and is.

Since such a cover up would be a crime, do we have a number of legal procedings (by states, municipalities or the feds) that would indicate such wrong doing? I haven't heard of any, which makes me even MORE suspicious of the motives behind this.

Also, just a FYI NetDoc... Do you really think that if the Catholic Church was trying to CURRENTLY cover up a murder or sexual abuse they would tell YOU? Please tell me how that would be "covering it up"

Ryan, as a matter of fact, I probably would. Until just recently I was retained by the local diocese to investigate pornography and stalking on the internet by anyone associated with the various parishes down here. Again, discretion and the need for confidentiality dictates that I not discuss this further than this acknowledgement. I will say, that any and all improprieties were reported to the proper authorities with the blessing of the diocese. Since my business has shifted completely to forums on the internet, I can no longer provide assistance to them in this capacity.

However, using your line of reasoning: that accusations should be entertained as being true flies in the face of "innocent until proven guilty". This is what enabled the "Swift Boat Veterans" to disparage a veteran so that we could elect a deserter instead. BTW, did you realise that Mahatma Ghandi suppressed the truth about him eating steak? Oh yeah, and Abe Lincoln made sure you didn't know anything about his slaves.

Here is the bottom line: If you accuse someone or a group on the internet WITHOUT providing us with any proof or caveat, then please expect someone with morals to stand up and call the accusation what it is: A troll.

You seem to get a lot of milage when there is no fuel in the car.You seem to get a lot of milage when there is no fuel in the car. Would you be running on a natural gas not normally found in the ground?

Of course, attacking me is far easier then addressing any of the points that I made. Good show! Gots to love them "red herrings". However, I have to admit that I get a lot of mileage out of "fools" in the thread!

 

[Quiddity]

Of course, attacking me is far easier then addressing any of the points that I made. Good show! Gots to love them "red herrings".

The luxuries of being an admin.

~Victor

 

[Scuba Pete]

I DIDN'T say that!

 

[michel]

The luxuries of being an admin.

~Victor

An admin, or a Mod, when posting on a thread is a member of the forum like any other member. If you have any complaint, please press the 'report' button.

 

[Quiddity]

An admin, or a Mod, when posting on a thread is a member of the forum like any other member. If you have any complaint, please press the 'report' button.

Let me try again. See if something actually happens.

~Victor

 

[Pah]

Of course, attacking me is far easier then addressing any of the points that I made. Good show! Gots to love them "red herrings". However, I have to admit that I get a lot of mileage out of "fools" in the thread!

I already adressed the points, NetDoc, where we had disagreement. You have not responded specificall to "Show me where the Vactican rescinded 'Crimine solicitationies'. According to the article the "a letter the Vatican [was] sent to bishops in May 2001 clearly stating the 1962 instruction was in force until then. Your "high horse" carries you nowhere when you fail to read the article. That would be four years - not forty. Do we have the policy offically withdrawn? and when was that done?'" and " Show me that all the secret documents regarding sexual child abuse and the coverup in the Vatican have been released to the public."

And here on the other point - "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312071116/002-9443142-6429618?v=glance&n=283155&st=%2A&v=glance
A list of books that can be term evidence. http://print.google.com/print?q=pac...l_s&sa=N&tab=wp

While "cover-up" might not be properly used to describe Vatican behavior, appeasment to murder is."

Instead I get the evasion I've come to expect. You ask for evidence, it shows you are wrong or, to be gentle, misguided and then promptly avoid it.
:tsk:

 

[robtex]

Pah,

Murder was mentioned in the first post: it seems to be absent from what you have provided us. Thought you should know.

http://www.afrol.com/Countries/Rwanda/backgr_cross_genocide.htm


In 94 in Rwanda catholics covered up murders to such a degree we will never know what happened. Vatican blood money played a large part of that in a country where there is much suffering.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4421558.stm
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/02/1080544692138.html

The Catholic Irish IRA lived and moved within the catholic community carrying out assassinations until really recently. I would be really suprised if clergy members were not aware of many of the assassins but protected their identity.

in WW2 the catholic church hid members of the Nazi SS to help them escape capture thus aiding in their genocide and in my mind propogating it.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_churchandnazis.html

and there is Shelia Ryan an ex-nun who had sex with with a fireman and than murdered him.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312967411/203-2594241-5001552

 

[Scuba Pete]

" Show me that all the secret documents regarding sexual child abuse and the coverup in the Vatican have been released to the public."

I am sure you will find them right there with the WMDs we also can't find. Go figure. It's tough to produce non-existent evidence, but you sure are refering to them a lot. I guess the Vatican is guilty until proven innocent. How quaint. Just don't go getting Shrub to help you with this anti-Catholic vendetta. I'm sure he would love to bomb the Vatican for you.

And here on the other point - "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/[

/QUOTE] No the REAL point is that you took exception to me calling a particular post a troll. You did it rather incompletely and did not like that I have proven you WRONG (by your own words). Instead of admitting that the post was indeed inflammatory and a troll, you continue to harass me by re-defining the argument at hand and telling everyone I am "full of hot gas". I can't help it if your apparent HATE of Christianity, Catholicism and me blinds you to an obvious troll. If your mother and father couldn't teach you the difference, then I am certainly at a loss as to how to do it.

Fact: the initial poster provided NO facts for his contention. Just venom. If that were directed at pagans or athiests, I am sure you would display some concern.
Fact: You have found NO EVIDENCE that there has been a cover up of any murders.
Fact: You have provided NO EVIDENCE of any widespread prosecution for these alleged systematic cover ups. Is it also your contention that our government is so inept at enforcing the law that they let these heinous crimes go unpunished?

Pah, you don't like me: I get it. Would you like me to leave again?

 

[Quiddity]

http://www.afrol.com/Countries/Rwanda/backgr_cross_genocide.htm


In 94 in Rwanda catholics covered up murders to such a degree we will never know what happened. Vatican blood money played a large part of that in a country where there is much suffering.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4421558.stm
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/02/1080544692138.html

The Catholic Irish IRA lived and moved within the catholic community carrying out assassinations until really recently. I would be really suprised if clergy members were not aware of many of the assassins but protected their identity.

in WW2 the catholic church hid members of the Nazi SS to help them escape capture thus aiding in their genocide and in my mind propogating it.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_churchandnazis.html

and there is Shelia Ryan an ex-nun who had sex with with a fireman and than murdered him.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312967411/203-2594241-5001552

Poor soul must of skipped my post.

~Victor

 

[Ryan2065]

Actually NetDoc, evidence has been posted, it is just that YOU have disregarded it. I have posted evidence, Pah has posted evidence, and now Robtex has posted evidence.

We now have evidence on the forum of the Catholic church both covering up murders and child molestation. Quit attacking other people and actually respond to the evidence posted. We have posted specific articles now, for the OP, so quit whining that the OP posted no evidence and address those of Pah, me and Robtex.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I still don't see the Vatican perpetuating a cover up in any of these Robtex. Especially the deplorable incidents in Rwanda. The Pope condemned the participation by the priests and such. Blaming ALL Catholics or even the Catholic church for the sins of these bigots is the SAME type of thinking that condemned all Jews for killing Jesus. It's just not right.

A year after the genocide, the Pope set the line that is maintained to this day: the church cannot be blamed for the crimes of individual priests and nuns. "The church lost its children, and some of the church's children were doing the killings," says Kibuye's parish priest today, Gaudens Murasandonyi, a 33-year-old Tutsi. "But the church does not have responsibility for what happened. It did not cause the killings. If priests were involved they were responsible as individuals, not as the church."

 

[Scuba Pete]

You are right Ryan,

I should just stand by and let this anti-Catholic vendetta happen. I am not Catholic, and I can just shake my head and be glad it's not happening to me. But allowing this bigotry to go unchallenged would make a mockery of all I stand for. I wouldn't sit by if they did the same to agnostics or atheists either. It's just wrong.

And no, there has been no evidence of a systematic cover up by the Catholic church. Only non-Catholics taking exception to a document that they clearly do not understand. Priests have NO EXTRA PROTECTION provided by the Vatican.

Actually NetDoc, evidence has been posted, it is just that YOU have disregarded it. I have posted evidence, Pah has posted evidence, and now Robtex has posted evidence.

We now have evidence on the forum of the Catholic church both covering up murders and child molestation. Quit attacking other people and actually respond to the evidence posted. We have posted specific articles now, for the OP, so quit whining that the OP posted no evidence and address those of Pah, me and Robtex.