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Critical Race Theory: definitions and concerns

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
CRT is explaining why there is subtle racism in US culture. It needs to be pointed out to students because most will not be aware of this racism because it is so subtle and often expressed against minorities is not obvious to the average citizen.

As far as a solution the best approach is to make citizens aware of the implicit racism in society so they can be informed when they make decisions about politics. I'm not sure if you are conservative, but it is typical of conservatives today to ignore the problems many minorities experience and try to move on as if these problems of racism will just work out on their own. But it is the ignorance that will help maintain the racism. It's no surprise that Republicans can't get a significant number of minority votes.

I'm what Bill Maher calls a "classic liberal". What astounds me over and over again in this thread is that people can't seem to absorb this simple perspective. You don't need to agree with it, just understand it. So let me ay it again:

I believe that racism is a serious problem, but that CRT is a bad solution.

It seems to me that the folks who peddle extreme left solutions are simply not interested in having honest discussions. So it's not good enough that we that agree racism is a problem, it's also DEMANDED of me to accept that CRT is a good solution. sigh...

(BTW, i'm not aiming this rant at you)
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I'm what Bill Maher calls a "classic liberal". What astounds me over and over again in this thread is that people can't seem to absorb this simple perspective. You don't need to agree with it, just understand it. So let me ay it again:

I believe that racism is a serious problem, but that CRT is a bad solution.

How is CRT claiming to be a solution? It's just pointing that racism exists and is largely unacknowledged by society.

It seems to me that the folks who peddle extreme left solutions are simply not interested in having honest discussions.
Who are these people? And give examples of the "extreme left solutions".

So it's not good enough that we that agree racism is a problem, it's also DEMANDED of me to accept that CRT is a good solution. sigh...

(BTW, i'm not aiming this rant at you)
Who is claiming it is a solution? I've only pointed out it is a set of arguments that explain how racism exists in US society.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
How is CRT claiming to be a solution? It's just pointing that racism exists and is largely unacknowledged by society.

Who are these people? And give examples of the "extreme left solutions".

Who is claiming it is a solution? I've only pointed out it is a set of arguments that explain how racism exists in US society.

It appears from your answer that you didn't read the OP? Because CRTists absolutely claim they have solutions.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So you think this is an honest and accurate rebuttal? This is desperate. There's a reason you can't defend the disinformation and attacks by the right wing.

  1. Does this woman look like she's being oppressed by the largly white audience here?
It's right in front of you. More than enough information is out there in the internet world to satiate the facts that black people today are not oppressed nor discriminated for the far greater part.


It's also not a right wing issue, it's activism, not political, but your little leftest echo chamber won't allow that will they?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
  1. Does this woman look like she's being oppressed by the largly white audience here?
It's right in front of you. More than enough information is out there in the internet world to satiate the facts that black people today are not oppressed nor discriminated for the far greater part.


It's also not a right wing issue, it's activism, not political, but your little leftest echo chamber won't allow that will they?
Weak evidence. Weak argument.

It's one woman. It's one example. This does not represent the whole of experiences by black people. You need to address what academics present as a whole. Like anything else there will be individuals with their own subtle takes on an issue. Those are anomalies. You need to address the WHOLE of what CRT argues in regards to implicit racism in US culture.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
It appears from your answer that you didn't read the OP? Because CRTists absolutely claim they have solutions.
britannica.com/topic/critical-race-theory

I rather go with a loose collection of ideas, where you have found one area.
I accept this one:
"...based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour. Critical race theorists hold that racism is inherent in the law and legal institutions of the United States insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans. Critical race theorists are generally dedicated to applying their understanding of the institutional or structural nature of racism to the concrete (if distant) goal of eliminating all race-based and other unjust hierarchies. ..."

Now in practice it means that some people can't see that it is racism, because that is how society is. What to do about it, is something else and your video in as far as I can tell only a corner of that.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
britannica.com/topic/critical-race-theory

I rather go with a loose collection of ideas, where you have found one area.
I accept this one:
"...based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour. Critical race theorists hold that racism is inherent in the law and legal institutions of the United States insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans. Critical race theorists are generally dedicated to applying their understanding of the institutional or structural nature of racism to the concrete (if distant) goal of eliminating all race-based and other unjust hierarchies. ..."

Now in practice it means that some people can't see that it is racism, because that is how society is. What to do about it, is something else and your video in as far as I can tell only a corner of that.

A couple of things strike me:

1 - Race DOES have biological foundations, both good and bad for all races.
2 - Britannica's definition seems consistent with the OP, but it's more abstract and less concrete. The OP is an attempt to take the abstract and surface some of the concrete directions CRTists are taking CRT.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
A couple of things strike me:

1 - Race DOES have biological foundations, both good and bad for all races.
2 - Britannica's definition seems consistent with the OP, but it's more abstract and less concrete. The OP is an attempt to take the abstract and surface some of the concrete directions CRTists are taking CRT.

There is no race in biology. I have done this for years now and I have found no biological theory of race. If you have one, please post it.
The OP is an attempt to take the abstract and surface some of the concrete directions CRTists are taking CRT.
Versus
The OP is an attempt to take the abstract and surface some of the concrete directions some CRTists are taking CRT.

Now it is very simple. You can't trust a single youtube video just like that. You have to dig deeper. So please do some basic search and see if CRT is what is described in the video or if there is more. You made the positive claim, now back it up. And please be critical of your sources.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
There is no race in biology. I have done this for years now and I have found no biological theory of race. If you have one, please post it.

How do you account for things like sickle cell disease? How do you account for some race's dominance in some athletics?

Now to be clear, I'm not claiming one race is better or worse than another, but they are clearly different.

Now it is very simple. You can't trust a single youtube video just like that.

No, you're wrong. I've listened to many talks and read many articles, and the video I posted provided the most well researched definition and concrete implementations I've found.

In the OP I made a series of factual claims. One of the first was the claim that the list of books I provided represent what CRT leaders think. Do you disagree? I might be wrong, but I think that list of books is probably very sound.

Second, the maker of the video made a LOT of direct citations in his video. Do you think he accurately summarized what CRT's leaders have in mind or not?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
How do you account for things like sickle cell disease? How do you account for some race's dominance in some athletics?

Now to be clear, I'm not claiming one race is better or worse than another, but they are clearly different.



No, you're wrong. I've listened to many talks and read many articles, and the video I posted provided the most well researched definition and concrete implementations I've found.

In the OP I made a series of factual claims. One of the first was the claim that the list of books I provided represent what CRT leaders think. Do you disagree? I might be wrong, but I think that list of books is probably very sound.

Second, the maker of the video made a LOT of direct citations in his video. Do you think he accurately summarized what CRT's leaders have in mind or not?

Okay, I remember we have done race before and we didn't agree. And I see no chance of it now. So I will stop. :)
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
A couple of things strike me:

1 - Race DOES have biological foundations, both good and bad for all races.
The differences we can see that we use to distinguish races of people is natural. We humans making up these categories, and assigning diverse values to each one, is not.

Nature did not dictate that dark skinned Africans are worth 3/5 of a white person, certain white people in the USA made this up and stood by it in law and actions.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
The differences we can see that we use to distinguish races of people is natural. We humans making up these categories, and assigning diverse values to each one, is not.

Nature did not dictate that dark skinned Africans are worth 3/5 of a white person, certain white people in the USA made this up and stood by it in law and actions.

You seem to be conflating race with racism, or am I missing something?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
No, I'm explaining how race is a human construct. We also assign various values to race, and at the extreme is racism.

Is sickle cell disease a human construct? Are different measured athletic performances constructs or are these just facts?
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
At the bottom of this post is a link to a 21 minute video I'd encourage you to watch. I'll attempt to summarize some of the important ideas in the video here. First off, the video cites 6 books as being the essential foundation of CRT (titles and author lists summarized):

1 - CRT: The Key Writings, Crenshaw +
2 - How to be an Antiracist, Kendi
3 - CRT: an intro, Delgado and Stefancic
4 - Words that Wound, Matsuda +
5 - White Fragility, DiAngelo

6 - Traditional and Critical Theory, Horkheimer (older, foundational)

Throughout the video, important claims about CRT are cited with screenshots of pages from these books. This seems like a very sound approach to defining CRT.

== Key Ideas in CRT

1 - CRT began as a deep dissatisfaction with the civil rights discourse of the 60s and 70s. Two important values that came out of this period were:
- color-blindness, the idea that laws should apply equally to everyone
- racial integration, the idea that society should be a melting pot and that cultural exchange and power should be shared

CRT, believes these values are flawed. Instead, CRTists promote race consciousness, forming collectives without integrating into society. (A la Malcolm X)

2 - CRT's main analysis approach is to "deconstruct" and then "reconstruct" aspects of society. Once society has been deconstructed, CRT will attempt to construct a new social reality, and direct its operation.

As part of this process, CRT has determined that equality theory, legal reasoning, rationalism, and neutral constitutional law are to be undermined. As an example, CRT considers the academic values of:
- objectivity
- neutrality
- and balance,

to be "white values", and not universally held. And anyone - regardless of skin color - who values objectivity, neutrality, and balance is "white" in practice. Instead of these academic values, CRT promotes "authenticity", which means resisting integration into the "white world". In order to achieve this, CRT promotes subjectivity and political bias. Instead of evidence, CRT promotes personal story-telling, a.k.a. "lived experience".

3 - Racism is THE defining issue of our time. You can either be a racist or an antiracist. An antiracist makes fighting racism the most important societal issue. You CANNOT be non-racist. If you don't act like a racist, BUT you don't hold racism as the most important issue, you are a racist.

4- America is a regime of white supremacy. It's laws, educational system, politics and culture are all in support of white supremacy and must be undone. The replacement plan is not yet clear, but includes:

- making hate speech illegal
- voter redistricting to support race consciousness
- passing an antiracist constitutional amendment and creating a Department of AntiRacism that would oversee all law making.
- embedding CRT into all aspects of academia
- ending capitalism

==

Now one might argue that the video maker has cherry picked some of the most controversial ideas from these books. To that I would say, perhaps, but so what? If you think there is an alternate "CRT-lite", that might be great news, can you provide citations?


My biggest questions about CRT are whether it is grounded in the specifics of historical events that are explicitly describable in terms of race identification or if it is grounded in human psychology and sociology.

For me without the later the whole academic pursuit is going to run out of steam. Social justice is founded on, perhaps, a societies' ability to second guess itself or deploy a rebalancing of powers when a population is created which suffers diproprtionally. Many factors go into this besides race.

IMO
 
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