Criticism of Islam.

[stevecanuck]

I understand this is your perspective. But if you are going to find fault with Islam, you have to suspend disbelief when arguing points. Quran shows God goes out of his way that after the founder people don't go astray, yet they choose to ignore the most central message which is God's Mastership through his revelation and chosen ones and how they teach they are to be approached with respect to proofs and insights.

It's not God's fault from this paradigm.

That and he taught to seek refuge in the lanterns in the sky for light, luminosity, and weapons to be used against Iblis forces and the dark magic.

It's the 21st century. Time to move on from ancient superstitions.

 

[stevecanuck]

See, when you make statements like that, about the Qur'an, its authorship, etc etc, you need to know at least the basics. Thats bottomline.

Thats why you should stick to what you know. Speak about things you find on the internet, those cut and pastes etc. Stick to what you know.

Please name one thing I've "cut and pasted" from questionable sources (Note the "please", since you are apparently unaware of the word).

 

[ecco]

Thanks for all of that. But quote scripture.

A broken record. You truly show the weakness of whatever argument you are trying to make.

Furthermore, if you believe scripture is the be-all and end-all of religion and religious beliefs, you are woefully and willfully ignorant of the history of mankind.

 

[firedragon]

Please name one thing I've "cut and pasted" from questionable sources (Note the "please", since you are apparently unaware of the word).

The list of verses cherry picked while intentionally ignoring some verses in the middle. I dont know what sources, but definitely lists that are aimed to not analyse but mime. Invalid.

 

[firedragon]

A broken record. You truly show the weakness of whatever argument you are trying to make.

Furthermore, if you believe scripture is the be-all and end-all of religion and religious beliefs, you are woefully and willfully ignorant of the history of mankind.

Thanks. But quote scripture.

 

[firedragon]

Please name one thing I've "cut and pasted" from questionable sources (Note the "please", since you are apparently unaware of the word).

you know for a Islam critique, who says who has 20 years of Quranic studies, you cant reply to some seriously basic ABC level questions. Why is that?

 

[stevecanuck]

The list of verses cherry picked while intentionally ignoring some verses in the middle. I dont know what sources, but definitely lists that are aimed to not analyse but mime. Invalid.

Another fail.

I spent 18 months rereading and summarizing the Qur'an. I made that list as part of that process and presented it to IndigoChild. When I said, "To condemn militancy in Islam is to directly negate the word of Allah", IC responded with, "I don't accept this".

This list showed IC every direct example of the Qur'an encouraging/demanding militancy. That list would be even longer if I included every verse saying to "go forth", or "leave your homes", because we both know that means, "go forth to battle".

Your steady stream of gratuitous denials and ad homs only shows you can't rebut me. Every time you do it is more proof.

 

[Link]

There's no shame that God advises believers to fight for the sake of justice.

This is needed today as well.

 

[Link]

It's the 21st century. Time to move on from ancient superstitions.

Yet it's only God and Islam in theory that can stop the oppressive ways of your "advanced" countries and if there is a chance, for humanity, it's to put their hope in the Mahdi and Jesus both returning and pray to God sincerely to deliver the believers and oppressed from the world order evil deceivers ruling your countries seek to unleash on mankind.

It always comes down to this over and over again through out time. Moses vs Pharaoh is a story that has taken time and time again. And will take a final world stage with the Mahdi.

 

[firedragon]

I made that list

Ah. So you made that list and it was you who intentionally left out verses in the middle. I was just giving you the escape route thinking it was a cut and paste so it was not your fault. Anyway, you clarified it. Great.

 

[firedragon]

Wow, you can't even keep your auto-denials straight. That was someone else. The joke that is firedragon just keeps getting funnier.

Im talking about two different people. Keep going with your insults because maybe you thrive on them.

So, anything else?

 

[stevecanuck]

Ah. So you made that list and it was you who intentionally left out verses in the middle. I was just giving you the escape route thinking it was a cut and paste so it was not your fault. Anyway, you clarified it. Great.

Yet another fail. They're adding up.

As I explained, the list was of verses that command violence. But, you keep pounding that pretend 'gotcha'. It's all you have.

 

[stevecanuck]

Im talking about two different people. Keep going with your insults because maybe you thrive on them.

So, anything else?

Wow, you will say anything. Anyway, I really do think we're done here. So I'll leave it to you to post "I accept your surrender". Goodbye until we meet in another thread.

 

[firedragon]

Wow, you will say anything. Anyway, I really do think we're done here. So I'll leave it to you to post "I accept your surrender". Goodbye until we meet in another thread.

So just more insults as argument.

You spoke of the authorship of the Qur'an. In your Quranic studies, what are the Islamic polemics you have studied that the Quran is of divine authorship?

Can you try your best to address the question, and decently point out what arguments you have studied and refuted? Critically.

Thanks in advance.

 

[firedragon]

Yet another fail. They're adding up.

As I explained, the list was of verses that command violence. But, you keep pounding that pretend 'gotcha'. It's all you have.

See, when you construct a so called "list" which are cherry picked verses, ignoring context, and even one verse in between two verses, it is actually a so called "gotcha" moment. It is an outcome. There is no choice.

Can you provide cogent arguments without giving lists of cherry picked verses?

This thread is for that. Criticism. The Qur'an is one book written by one person. Divine or not, it is written by one person, in one language, one style, so the book has to be taken in context of the book itself. So you cannot cherry pick. If its a book written by many authors, then you can cherry pick but still, between different authors. Not within one authors work.

Try.

 

[RestlessSoul]

If there is a policy among atheists to kill religious people for believing in a god, then I haven't heard of it.
If there is a policy among atheists to kill ex-atheists when they turn to religion, then I haven't heard of it.
If there is a policy among atheists to kill people whose morals are different, then I haven't heard of it.
I could go on, but you should get the picture.

You've not heard of Chinese persecution of Uighur Moslems, or Tibetan Buddhists then? This is happening now.

Howabout Lenin's war on the Orthodox Christian church? The later Soviet tactic of labelling all religious people as mentally ill, and confining them to asylums? You didn't know about any of that either?

Strange blindspot you seem to have.

 

[ecco]

One ardent Islam hater is a pretend scholar with 20 years of study doesn't know ABC but cut and paste, and another wants to discuss "History of mankind".

One ardent Islam supporter who cannot defend what he knows is indefensible; the same Islam supporter who would ignore that man's actions are guided by the interpretations of scripture.

How do you account for the ban on teaching boys and girls equally? Do you suppose that those in favor of banning education for girls have never read your holy book? Absurd! It has been read, it has been interpreted. Your argument is not with me. It should be directed to those who would treat females as lesser. Unless, of course, you agree with them. Do you?

 

[ecco]

There's no shame that God advises believers to fight for the sake of justice.

Justice as defined by whom? Maybe all those Muslims who believe in equal opportunities for girls and women should stand up and fight against those Muslims who support keeping women under their thumb.

 

[firedragon]

How do you account for the ban on teaching boys and girls equally?

Not Islamic. Not traditional.

 

[firedragon]

Maybe all those Muslims who believe in equal opportunities for girls and women should stand up and fight against those Muslims who support keeping women under their thumb.

The thread is "criticism of Islam". Not "muslims must speak to other Muslims". You can open a new thread if you like about that topic without trying to derail this one.